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Geographic Difference - Local Shoots?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Pocatello, Aug 23, 2008.

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  1. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,547
    I started shooting in SW Michigan in 1978, thirty years ago. Back then my local shoots were reasonably small, there were seldom trophies or options, and 100 straights and 27 yard shooters were rare for the most part. In 1984 I moved to SE Idaho, and continued to shoot off and on. The Idaho local shoots had more shooters than I was used to, had trophies and options, higher scores than I was used to, and 27 yard shooters were reasonably common. In fact my very first shoot after I moved I broke my first 100 straight in singles, and the next year I broke 98 in a handicap. In a recent thread on whether singles are too easy, it appears that the geographical divide still exists. Pat Ireland mentions that 100 straights are not too common in Virginia's local shoots, Flagarto states the same for Florida, while Lyle states most Idaho shoots, even small ones, will have them. Flagarto asked for some local data, but I was the only one to respond with some, from our annual Gun Shoot last weekend. So let's try again to gather some data.

    Pocatello trap Club has had five scheduled ATA shoots this year - one-day shoots in February and March, a two-day shoot in June, and four-day shoots in July (the Western Zone) and August (the Gun Shoot). The weather was not kind in February, but OK for the other shoots. Here is some data:

    February's first event was 50 pair of doubles, 21 total shooters in four classes, A, B, C, D.

    Class A had six shooters, a high score of 94, and median score 90.

    Class B had nine shooters, high score 92, and median 86.

    Class C had three shooters, high 90, median 83.

    Class D had three shooters, high 67, median 60.

    The second event was 100 singles, 39 total shooters in four classes, A, B, C, D. There were about a dozen SCTP shooters, mostly brand new.

    Class A had eleven shooters, high 99, median 96.

    Class B had eleven shooters, high 97, median 94.

    There were no class C entrants.

    Class D had seventeen shooters, high 90, median 75.

    The third event was 100 handicap, 26 shooters in two yardage groups, 19-23.5 and 24-27.

    The short yardage group had thirteen shooters, high 95, median 88.

    The long yardage group had thirteen shooters, high 93, median 88.

    The winner shot from 20.5 yards.

    March's first event was 50 pair of doubles, 43 total shooters in four classes, A, B, C, D.

    Class A had ten shooters, a high score of 98, and median score 94.

    Class B had seventeen shooters, high score 96, and median 86.

    Class C had eleven shooters, high 93, median 86.

    Class D had five shooters, high 87, median 71.

    The second event was 100 singles, 47 total shooters in four classes, A, B, C, D.

    Class A had nineteen shooters, high 100, median 98.

    Class B had fifteen shooters, high 99, median 94.

    Class C had four shooters, high 96, median 92.5.

    Class D had nine shooters, high 96, median 87.

    There were three 100 straights total.

    The third event was 100 handicap, 50 shooters in two yardage groups, 19-23.5 and 24-27.

    The short yardage group had 32 shooters, high 95, median 90.

    The long yardage group had 18 shooters, high 97, median 87.5.

    The winner shot from 27 yards.

    The June Shoot started with 100 pair of doubles with 42 shooters in five classes, AA-A-B-C-D.

    Class AA had 7 shooters, high 197, median 194.

    Class A had 10 shooters, high 192, median 188.5.

    Class B had 15 shooters, high 188, median 180.

    Class C had 8 shooters, high 180, median 177.

    Class D had 2 shooters, high 172, median 163.5.

    Next was 100 singles (the first half of a 200 bird race over two days), with 50 shooters in five classes, AA-A-B-C-D.

    Class AA had 9 shooters, high 100, median 99.

    Class A had 16 shooters, high 99, median 96.5.

    Class B had 15 shooters, high 100, median 93.

    Class C had 6 shooters, high 97, median 93.5.

    Class D had 4 shooters, high 79, median 73.

    There were three 100 straights.

    The final event of day one was 100 handicap with 46 shooters in three yardage groups, 19-22.5, 23-25.5, and 26-27.

    Short yardage had 13 shooters, high 95, median 89.

    Mid yardage had 17 shooters, high 98, median 91.

    Long yardage had 16 shooters, high 97, median 92.5.

    The winner (yours truly) shot from 25.5 yards.

    Day two started with 100 singles, 51 shooters.

    Class AA had 8 shooters, high 100, median 99.

    Class A had 20 shooters, high 100, median 98.

    Class B had 12 shooters, high 97, median 92.5.

    Class C had 7 shooters, high 96, median 94.

    Class D had 4 shooters, high 83, median 75.

    There were four 100 straights.

    Next was 100 handicap, 42 shooters, same yardage groups.

    Short yardage had 10 shooters, high 95, median 90.

    Mid yardage had 12 shooters, high 100, median 93.

    Long yardage had 22 shooters, high 97, median 92.

    The winner shot from 22 yards.

    The final event was another handicap with 44 shooters.

    Short yardage had 10 shooters, high 98, median 91.5.

    Mid yardage had 12 shooters, high 95, median 91.5.

    Long yardage had 22 shooters, high 97, median 92.

    The winner shot from 22 yards.

    If there is any interest in this thread, post your local data, and I will continue with ours from the July and August shoots. If there is no interest, I'll let it fade away.
     
  2. balance365

    balance365 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    I will dig up scores from some shoots in Mid Atlantic and post them. This is exactly the type of data many here do NOT want to see, because it doesn't support their opinion that the ATA is broken. Lets get data points, analyze them, and argue from facts, not random data or conjecture. Even though there are only a few data points, looking at the median score shows that, at least at these shoots, there is nothing wrong with the current classifying and yardage. The singles and doubles show lower classes consistently break lower scores and in handicap the median score of the groups is nearly equal. Isn't that exactly what is intended?
     
  3. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,547
    It seems there is at least a little interest, so let's continue. Our July shoot was one section of the ATA Western Zone.

    Day one, Thursday, started with 100 singles in six classes, AAA to D, 38 shooters.

    AAA had 3 shooters, high 100, median 98.

    AA had 11 shooters, high 100, median 98.

    A had 7 shooters, high 99, median 97.

    B had 7 shooters, high 98, median 97.

    C had 6 shooters, high 98, median 94.

    D had 4 shooters, high 94, median 90.

    There were three 100 straights.

    Next was 100 handicap, 39 shooters in two yardage groups, 19-23.5 and 24-27.

    Short yardage had 13 shooters, high 97, median 91.

    Long yardage had 26 shooters, high 97, 93.5.

    There were actually five tied at 97, three at 27 yards, one at 26 yards, and one at 23.5 yards.

    Event three was another handicap, 36 shooters, same yardage groups.

    Short yardage had 11 shooters, high 96 (two of them from 20/20.5 yards), median 92.

    Long yardage had 25 shooters, high 97 (four of them, all from 27 yards), median 93.

    Friday started with 100 doubles, 45 shooters in six classes AAA through D.

    Class AAA had two shooters, with scores of 98 and 89.

    Class AA had 16 shooters, high 99, median 96.5.

    Class A had 9 shooters, high 96, median 94.

    Class B had 11 shooters, high 96, median 94.

    Class C had 5 shooters, high 95, median 89.

    Class D had 2 shooters, scores 94 and 76.

    Next was 100 singles, 56 shooters.

    Class AAA had 6 shooters, high 100, median 99.

    Class AA had 18 shooters, high 100, median 98.

    Class A had 12 shooters, high 98, median 95.

    Class B had 9 shooters, high 99, median 95.

    Class C had 8 shooters, high 97, median 92.5.

    Class D had 3 shooters, high 92, median 86.

    There were two 100 straights.

    The final event of the day was 100 handicap, 56 shooters in the same yardage groups.

    Short yardage had 17 shooters, high 94 (two from 20 and one from 21 yards), median 90.

    Long yardage had 39 shooters, high 98 from 27 yards, median 91.

    Saturday started off with the Championship Singles, 76 shooters in the six classes.

    First 100 shooters:

    Class AAA had 6 shooters, high 100 (two of them), median 99.

    Class AA had 18 shooters, high 100 (also two), median 97.5.

    Class A had 14 shooters, high 98, median 96.5.

    Class B had 14 shooters, high 99 (two), median 96.

    Class C had 14 shooters, high 98, median 92.5.

    Class D had 10 shooters, high 96, median 88.5.

    There were four 100 straights.

    Second 100:

    Class AAA had 6 shooters, high 100 (three), median 99.5.

    Class AA had 18 shooters, high 100 (five), median 99.

    Class A had 14 shooters, high 99, median 96.

    Class B had 14 shooters, high 100 (one), median 95.

    Class C had 14 shooters, high 98, median 95.

    Class D had 10 shooters, high 97, median 89.5.

    There were 9 100 straights.

    Total 200:

    Class AAA had 6 shooters, high 200 (two), median 199.5.

    Class AA had 18 shooters, high 200 (one), median 196.5.

    Class A had 14 shooters, high 197, median 192.5.

    Class B had 14 shooters, high 199, median 191.

    Class C had 14 shooters, high 196, median 187.5.

    Class D had 10 shooters, high 193, median 179.

    Sunday started off with the Championship Doubles, 63 shooters in six classes.

    Class AAA had 3 shooters, high 98, median 95.

    Class AA had 17 shooters, high 99 (four), median 97.

    Class A had 12 shooters, high 99, median 96.

    Class B had 13 shooters, high 97, median 90.

    Class C had 11 shooters, high 94 (six), median 94.

    Class D had 6 shooters, high 94, median 69.

    The final event was the Championship Handicap, 83 shooters in the two yardage groups.

    Short yardage had 36 shooters, a high of 97 from 21 yards, and median 91.

    Long yardage had 47 shooters, a high of 99 from 26.5 yards, and median 94.

    An interesting side note is that 30 of the 83 shooters in this handicap were at 27 yards, with high 98 (two), and median 93.

    I'll add the August Gun Shoot later.
     
  4. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    Pocatello


    Good work. This is exactly what's needed.


    My issue is why in the hell doesn't the ATA compile and distribute this type of information. They collect all the relevant shoot information then apparently know one thinks it's important enough to analyze.


    If this was a major corporation and the BOD didn't not take the time or effort to understand what was happening to their customer base at a minimum they would be removed from the board.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  5. balance365

    balance365 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    Here are some I dug up, sorry it took me a while to post. Shoot is in Maryland, Memorial day weekend.

    Singles Day 1: sorry, lost a sheet so data is incomplete and not valid
    Singles Day 2: 4 classes, 69 shooters, 99 was high (1 shooter)
    Class A, 25 shooters, 99 high (X1), median 96
    Class B, 21 shooters, 98 high (X3), median 96
    Class C, 12 shooters, 94 high (X2), median 90
    Class D, 11 shooters, 96 high (X2), median 89

    Doubles Day 1: 3 classes,32 shooters, 96 was high (1 shooter)
    Class A, 13 shooters, 96 high (X1), median 90
    Class B, 13 shooters, 93 high (X1), median 84
    Class C, 6 shooters, 89 high, (X1), median 84.5

    Doubles Day 2: 3 classes,29 shooters, 98 was high (1 shooter)
    Class A, 10 shooters, 98 high (X1), median 91.5
    Class B, 10 shooters, 96 high (X1), median 85.5
    Class C, 9 shooters, 92 high, (X1), median 85

    Handicap Day 1: 3 groups, 19-21, 22-24, 25-27,69 shooters 96 was high (2 shooters)
    19-21, 22 shooters, 96 high (X2), median 88
    22-24, 21 shooters, 95 high (X1), median 86
    25-27, 24 shooters, 93 high (X2), median 85.5

    Handicap Day 2: 3 groups, 19-21, 22-24, 25-27,67 shooters 94 was high (1 shooters)
    19-21, 21 shooters, 93 high (X1), median 86
    22-24, 23 shooters, 94 high (X1), median 86
    25-27, 23 shooters, 92 high (X1), median 84
     
  6. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    West Central Florida
    Sounds to me like there a lot of sandbaggers especially in the C and D classes. Murray
     
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