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GC's & Rem Primers $$$

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by WNCRob, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    GC

    I have a Ponsness Warren reloader and like other PW owners, have a problem with non-Remington primers fully seating in GC hulls. I have been using Remington primers satisfactorily, but recently their price has escallated significantly, almost 2X Cheddites, and that is if you can find any in stock. OK. I have a few thousand GC hulls that I'd like to use. So, what is the best solution? Are Remington hulls the only ones that have rounded primer pockets that make non-factory primers difficult to use with reloaders like the PW that don't support the hull base when inserting the primer?

    WNCRob
     
  2. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Remington hulls are the only ones I've had that trouble with...of course, the only other hulls I've ever reloaded seriously are AA. All other hulls (Federal, Cheddite, Rio) are straight-walled hulls and don't use the wads I have).

    My solution to the primer fit problem is to pre-prime the once-fired hulls when I'm using stubborn primers like Winchesters, Nobels and CCIs (I don't use Cheddites or Fiocchis any more). It fixes the problem for Winchesters and Nobels but CCIs never seat completely flush; I think it has something to do with the flange shape. I use an old Lee Load-All II to resize and pre-prime once-fired hulls and unscrew the pin from the primer punch on the PW press to load them.

    I know several guys who hand ream some of the offending plastic out of the CG/STS primer tunnel with sharp 5.9mm, "A", 15/64" or 6.0mm twist drill bits (in ascending order of size). They go in through the metal base; a couple of turns does it.

    Keller
     
  3. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Unknown1 has a good system there, also after the 1st reload with a non Rem. primer they will "usually" run through your PW OK, they do for me anyway. I have very good luck with GC hulls. Ross Puls
     
  4. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Talk to ivanhoe (Bob). He told me it was impossible for you to not be able to adjust your press to prevent proud primers on a PW...
     
  5. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Unknown1 has the answer.

    I use a MEC Sizemaster loader to pre-prime and size the GC hulls the first time. The Sizemaster is a single stage loader with a collet sizer. Pre-priming the hulls with a non-Remington primer sizes the primer pocket and the Sizemaster collet sizes the steel head so the hulls go in and out of the dies on the Ponsness/Warren with less effort.

    Jim Skeel<BR>P/W Dealer/Distributor
     
  6. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Jim, have you given any more thought to the decapping pin I mentioned to you? Looks like a pin with a bevel at the top would swage that bit of plastic out of the way and save the day.
     
  7. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    I have a PW Patriot and use Gun Club hulls and Winchester primers. I have not had a seating problem.
     
  8. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Some people would not notice this problem if they tripped over it.
     
  9. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"Some people would not notice this problem if they tripped over it."</I></blockquote>...and then some people will get mysterious misfires even though they dimple a proud primer and then blame the primers for being junk.

    Keller
     
  10. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    Some people inspect their reloads and would notice a problem! Never had a misfire with this combination.

    Too many snipers on here who do not know how to be polite!
     
  11. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it would work if someone made a deprime pin that was knurled and the correct OD so as to ream/swage the primer pockets slightly as it deprimes, removing some of the plastic and making it easier for the new primer to seat correctly.
     
  12. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Paul, sorry to be impolite, but it is simply a physical impossibility for you NOT to have this problem. There is no way to adjust for this.
     
  13. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"I wonder if it would work if someone made a deprime pin that was knurled and the correct OD so as to ream/swage the primer pockets..."</i></blockquote>I tried something like that a year or 2 back when JerryP and I kicked the idea around. I didn't have any knurling on it because I didn't have the capability but I wanted to give the swage idea a try. I ran into a couple of problems right off:<UL><LI>the intruding plastic at the end of the primer hole did NOT want to be swaged. It's just too stiff<LI>the amount that the plastic can be expanded is limited by the ID of the primer hole.</UL>I machined a couple of sleeves to fit over the old .185" diameter primer punch pin. The biggest I could make one and still get it into and out of the primer hole was .238". I couldn't make anything for the new .217" pin because there I couldn't create a sleeve thin enough to get into the primer hole.<center>
    View attachment 197213 View attachment 197214
    </center>I doubt that knurling would be of any use if it's intended to act as a low speed file because<UL><LI>knurling has no cutting edges, and<LI>the length of travel of the pin into and back out of the primer hole would be too short to do any meaningful material removal.</UL> I'm thinking that this is a problem with no solution to be found by using the press as a tool.

    Keller
     
  14. 548

    548 Guest

    Someone posted a chart on here a while back with the measurements of the different manufacturers 209 primers. Based on that chart, the Federal primer dimensions most closely match Remington's. I have not tried them yet, but I will be switching to Federal primers this year in my Remington hulls because of cost.
     
  15. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    Johnny, My PW has a primer seating depth adjustment.
     
  16. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"Someone posted a chart on here a while back with the measurements of the different manufacturers 209 primers. Based on that chart, the Federal primer dimensions most closely match Remington's. I have not tried them yet, but I will be switching to Federal primers this year in my Remington hulls because of cost."</i></blockquote>It's not the dimensions of the primer that matter, it's the shape of the end that causes the problem: <center>
    View attachment 197212
    </center>The end of the Remington on the left has a nice rounded shape. The plastic at the end of the primer hole conforms to that shape. The Federal primer on the right has a squarer end. As the primer reaches the end of the hole it runs into the curve of plastic that matched the Remington primer and stops because there is nowhere for its squarer corner to go.

    Remingtons have the roundest end of any primer and that causes seating problems with most every other primer unless you either remove the excess plastic or have a way to force the square primer past the obstruction.

    Keller
     
  17. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Paul, my PW also has seating depth adjustment. Once it is adjusted for proper depth that is all you can do.

    Keller, all we have to do is adjust the press, why can't we figure it out? :]
     
  18. wlc

    wlc Member

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    I had this problem with Winchester primers, Cheddites worked ok.
     
  19. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"Keller, all we have to do is adjust the press, why can't we figure it out? :]"</i></blockquote>Before I came to the conclusion that a PW was not going to stuff a square primer into a round hole, I inflicted some serious abuse on one of my presses trying to make it happen. I had the primer seating assembly adjusted so high that IT became the travel stop for the lower crosshead. I used to jamb that handle up so hard trying to beat those primers in that I actually saw the turret bend. And the process was even more difficult because I hadn't learned of the advantages of resizing steel hull bases before I sent them through the press. I had to overcome the resistance of trying to squeeze a .812" base into a .804" die and still have enough ooomph left to jam the hull over the primer. Some primers went in, more ended up in various degrees of "close". Some hulls got dished bases, some didn't. But my press took a lot of abuse, that's certain. I'm really surprised the poor thing lived through it.

    Keller
     
  20. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Belize , you didn't tell me you had done that. That's what I am talking about. Thought sure it would work. When a non Rem primer is seated it is doing the same thing so why won't the decapping pin do it? That doesn't make sense. Perhaps it is the configuration that needs tweaked. Does the sleeve go into the primer pocket to the full dia of the sleeve?

    I have pushed so hard on some the Rem hulls that the brass was distorted concave and the primer still not seated. The press has a slight amount of give and this cannot be adjusted for.
     
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