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Galling Repair?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Mark425, Nov 21, 2011.

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  1. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    Posting for a non computer literate friend.....

    This weekend an older gentleman I shoot with occasionally either forgot or doesn't know how to lube his near brand new MX8 and this caused some serious galling on both the knuckles and fore iron. Obviously he is sick over this. I volunteered to investigate if if this can be repaired. I don't have any experience with these types of fixes so I thought this would be a good place to ask. So...can it be fixed? Its probably not as bad as I think but it doesn't look good to my untrained eye.

    Thanks,
    Mark
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I bought this BT99 really cheap off of a guy who also did not believe in lube. When i bought the gun it had about 1000 rounds thru it. That shows how fast galling can occur when not lubricated. I smoothed out the rough spots with 800 grit and then polished it with 1000 grit sandpaper. I used light oil to wet sand the spots. The grooves are still there but it is not getting worse. Gun works just fine and locks up tight. I would be interested in hearing if and how they could fix this right.



    grntitan_2009_2503122.jpg
     
  3. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

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    Did the same on my MX15...stupid, stupid, stupid. Had Doug Braker polish the spots a bit and it looks a lot better now. Probably ok to use, just doesn't look pretty.
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Smooth it out like they did above. Fill the grooves with grease and it will be just fine. HMB
     
  5. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    I told him that you might be able to have it stoned/sanded down. THINK he wants to know if it can be welded up and re-cut? That's what I don't know. Should have made my post clearer....sorry.
     
  6. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Those deeper gouges are now lubrication depots. This is what happens when you have a way too tight forend and try to shoot it in.
     
  7. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    Had galling start on my Grade 6 Browning and caught it before it did the damage shown above . Shot with a fellow sortly threafter who had one gun similar to mine and I said I`d like to see his . Broke it open and he never saw what was happening to his gun . Very bad and he thanked me for bringing it to his attention . Another , a woman shooter with a brand new BT 99 , had it for about a month and shot it a few times , said it was getting harder to open . Sure enough , very bad gouges in the metal . I filed them of on the high spots and used fine emory paper and it`s damaged but usable .
     
  8. ctreay

    ctreay Member

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    I have an older Citori with the same type of galling but it was not lube related. The gun had about 600 rounds through it when it suddenly became very, very stiff to open. We took the forearm off and got the barrels off and found that the tip of the lower ejector trip rod had apprently been nipped off when I opened the gun and then when I closed it for the next shot it started the galling. It looks just about like the photo that gratitan posted above.

    ctreay
     
  9. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Give it to a gunsmith! The sanding or filing is fine but you need to know what your doing since two much metal removal will hasten the wear and loosen the for end. If your close to me NJ i can get it done properly by tig welding the galling and filing a clean radius. Not everyone will do this kind of work but I think you could give Danny @ Giacomo sporting a call.
    Joe
     
  10. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Don't use a file, use a stone and oil. The forearm metal will need some attention too to ensure this does not repeat.

    WW
     
  11. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

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    Here we have views of one rather heavily gouged set of surfaces along with in-progress views and final views at completion. This Citori had been seen and rejected, but I have taken on work that other shops avoided more than once.


    Kirby


    These views of the frame are not pretty.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=s.jpg" target="_blank"> s.jpg </a>


    The forend iron has much the same problem.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=w.jpg" target="_blank"> w.jpg </a>


    Work in progress; see how much is gone, while the remainder marks are still deep.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=t.jpg" target="_blank"> t.jpg </a>


    Hard to find much evidence at this point.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=y.jpg" target="_blank"> y.jpg </a>


    Ready for assembly, and not bad considering the initial condition.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=z.jpg" target="_blank"> z.jpg </a>
     
  12. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Kirby,

    Excellent work. I'm very impressed. Nobody would ever believe that was the same gun had you not shown it. Very impressive.

    Matt
     
  13. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Kirby,

    Did you have to add metal back to that, or just kept taking a little off? I assume if you added metal it was TIG welded, what filler material did you use? Nice job BTW.

    Thanks,

    Wayne
     
  14. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Nice job, Kirby!

    Whiz
     
  15. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Kirby.... Now that's real gunsmithing ART for you, no matter who you are! Excellent job. I, too, would like to know how you accomplished this great transition from junk to "fine".... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  16. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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  17. Habib

    Habib Member

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    up for wayneo's question
     
  18. twostraight

    twostraight Member

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    I had a Browning BT 99 with really bad galling. Art's ggun repair in Missouri fixed it at a minimal cost. Couldn't even tell it ever had an issue.
     
  19. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

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    A few quick notes about repairs of this sort are in order.

    Welding in a few spots that are not near edges may be OK for certain situations, but the heat near an edge can affect the blue, for instance. There is also the case of alteration of temper or creating hard spots that need homogenizing. Area coverage of gouged surfaces would not be something that I would normally consider for welding - unless these was no margin for adjusting the slack created from surface leveling as was done to the aforementioned pair of surfaces.

    Welding can create warpage, stresses in the metal, and other problems, so I considered the rework of the surfaces and localized parts adjustment as the better choice to solve the issue.

    When surfaces need drastic alteration as shown, there is a repetition of cut and check, cut and check to ensure that the fit of the parts doesn't go away during the adjustment phase. Once the combination of surface improvement and contour matching has come to a reasonable conclusion, then the rework of the parts fit is next in line. Since the surfaces have both lost some dimension, adjacent parts may need to be re-fitted to allow correct operation and there is that small matter of freshly created slack that must be eliminated.

    I believe that it is sometimes hard for the average person to ascertain results (concerning requirements of the job and inspection of the finished product) if they have no background in something like a mechanical or machining field, so that is why I may have explanatory photographs to improve understanding of the text (or is it the other way around?). I hope that this will help those with less experience to improve their perspective concerning aspects of advanced gunsmithing that most never witness.

    Kirby
     
  20. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    To clarify my statement about welding. Welding is always acceptable if done properly. Browning was welding up the backs of their salt guns for years and then restamping or engraving the borders on the receivers. Yes there may be a reblue job in the process. Depending on the amount of material that is needed to be removed welding may be the best choice. Now don't take the receiver to your local welding shop and ask them to fill the metal in. (you will probably make things worse.

    The issues Kirby stated are valid if you don't know what your working with or how to properly treat the job. I'm fortunate to have a nuclear citified welding inspector who does my work. I rarely have any problems needing bluing. Sometimes a heat shielding putty is used and many times you might cool the welding in warm glass beads to control the hardening. ( its not the welding but how fast it cools.)

    One other thing I might mention when I started to learn engraving under Hank Bonham; one of the first things I learned was how to move metal. Hank was fixing quite a few slides for a nationally recognized pistol smith who was welding 45 slides for S&W sights. (No I'm not an engraver I gave up!)

    If you can really clean out all the grit sand dirt ect. I recommend masking the receiver and sand blasting then you can peen over most of the remaining metal and burnish to move some of the high spots. Less filing and or sanding are left.

    Now I prefer files but I learned from a machinist that taught me how to make Perfectly square blocks with in .001 and even ball bearings out of soft steel with a file. You can't use a craftsman file to do that.

    Kirby's job looks great! It is excellent work. It's not the only way.

    One word of caution just like kirby This is a time consuming project if you want results like his picture send the job to him or another professional. Krieghoff and Giaccomo sporting do this work all the time.

    If you have a Browning or Beretta get a gunsmith that has done this sort of work. For the other brands of guns my suggestion is to call them first and inquire about their turnaround on such work. MY guess is with the exception of a few semi custom guns your going to be better served in both time and money getting a good gunsmith to do the work.
    Joe
     
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