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GAH should be last event of Target Year

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by NintyT, Aug 29, 2009.

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  1. NintyT

    NintyT Member

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    I'd like to hear your opinion on this. It seems to me that the last shot fired at the Grand, in the final handicap, should mark the end of the target year. Regardless of the day or month. The culmination of all our efforts for the year should be the GAH. Steve Johnson
     
  2. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    And it should be the last registered shoot of the target year.
     
  3. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    NintyT there are 15 perfectly good days from the last day of the grand to the end of the target year. Why would anyone want to waste that time. If some club want to put on a shoot.

    "The culmination of all our efforts for the year should be the GAH."

    You will have to explain that statement. I don't know understand what "all our efforts" means, efforts toward what?????

    BTW there are other reasons to shoot beside finding the end of the year.

    Bob Lawless
     
  4. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Yes, why? We had 122 shooters at our shoot on August 15 & 16. None of which, of course, were at the Grand.
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    We had a nice shoot on August 23. Several of the shooters were at the Grand.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    It is very simple why the Grand American should be the last target attainment for the target year, every registered target fired at after the Grand American should go on the next years target attainment.

    I believe that is what NintyT is meant to say, it may not be what he stated, but that is what I think he meant to say AM I CORRECT NINTY_T?

    I also believe that evry registered target shot after the Grand American should go on the next years record, reason #1 there are a lot of nice days left before winter steps in and slows down shooting and better averages can be attained, and better known ability can be applied.

    This also lets the family man have a longer time to get the targets in for the Grand Qualification Requirements.

    I still think the ATA should go back to the 1500 targets over the previous 3 years, which amounts to 500 of each 16s, hdcp, doubles, the results would be more shooters at the Grand.

    The money guys and top dogs will still shoot as many targets.

    The ATA was down about how many million total registered targets from the previous year? It was a substantial amount.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. Bird Grinder

    Bird Grinder Member

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    I agree also. All the targets I shot at the Cardinal Classic 2009 count for nothing!
     
  8. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    I have heard it said often on this board that the Grand is the "Superbowl" of Trapshooting. So, does the NFL continue to play games AFTER the Superbowl? Why not start the new Target Year the day after the Grand?

    I cannot find the rule book on the ATA site?? but why should the Grand "target year" differ from State shoots?
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    So Mr Bryant because it doesn't work that way now. Are you saying that no one is entitled to accumulate the targets? The targets don't count toward the Grand next year. So you and NintyT feel that no one should be allowed to shoot ATA targets. Between the Grand and the end of the target year. Is that an accurate description of how you and NintyT feel?

    Well I will tell you and NintyT how I feel. Every shooter that joins the ATA and shoots ATA targets has a reason for doing so. Their reason in every case is their decision. If there is time to accumulate targets to totals whether it is lifetime or for their own State Shoot. Why do you and NintyT think you have the right to tell these shooters what they should be shooting for.

    You say those targets should only be allowed if they count for the Grand next year. I find it fascinating that you would be concerned about the Grand. Since you don't seem to attend that event.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    EE I think if you check it out you will find that what is in the Grand program was put there because of the reduced target year for 2009.

    Frank C

    "I cannot find the rule book on the ATA site?? but why should the Grand "target year" differ from State shoots?"

    Frank it doesn't the Book still says.

    A. GRAND AMERICAN QUALIFICATION

    No participant shall be classified to shoot Handicap events at less than
    25.0 yards unless he/she has a minimum of 1000 registered Handicap
    targets in the current year. The 1000 handicap targets must have been
    registered beginning the first day after the last day of previous Grand
    American World Trapshooting Championships through the last day of
    preliminary week of the current Grand American World Trapshooting
    Championships. However, participants who fail to meet Grand American
    Handicap qualification as described above shall have the choice of
    shooting targets only from their assigned yardage provided they waive
    and forfeit all rights to trophies, options, purses, and added money.
    Handicap target requirements are waived for Senior Veterans, making
    them eligible for trophies and monies."

    Even though the grand program read different than this section of the rules there was an allowance made because the the 2009 target years was only 10 months for 2009.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Any target shot after August 31st regardless of starting date will count towards the next target year.

    That is almost what I stated.

    Targets shot at Cardinal Classic according to the rule book will count.

    Target year is Sept 1st through August 31st

    I think a rule clarification should be made that the target year starts after the last day of the Grand American as the date changes yearly.

    That would be intrepreted more clearly.

    My reply has been mis-intrepreted and I am partially reponsible in my reply.

    The day after the Grand should be the start of the next target year period.!!

    It actually states this in the rule book in a round-a-bout way.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  12. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    EE, maybe the Grand should be the first shoot of the year. THat way all the targets shot could count towards the following year Grand requirements. JRM
     
  13. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    Steve...Your idea is a good one. Anything after the Grand counts towards the New Target year. Super idea. Those last two weeks of August are still great for shooting and in areas where target attainment can be iffie(like northwest Pa.)...the post Grand targets would count towards your needed minimums for the various State shoots, etc. ! This is a GREAT idea..for real !!!...Uncle Sam
     
  14. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    What would it take to get this done ??
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    What it would take, Sam, is for you to get a delegate to take it on as a personal project. Then a notice of a proposed by-law change would have to be sent to every delegate at least 15 days before the Annual Meeting, and then he'd have to get a majority to vote for it. The BOD recently got burned on a target-year change, so I wouldn't expect any action for at least five years, but I could be wrong.

    Clearly, a bit of typing here on TS.com isn't going to get anything done, either this or any of the other stuff people "want" but won"t "do." Find your delegate and get to work if you favor it, or run for delegate yourself. That's what I did, for about 25 years. _That's_ what it takes and if you really, really want to make changes; that's the office you need to occupy.

    Neil
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Frank C- Actually the NFL does have a game after the Super Bowl. And, for many years the ATA had a shoot at the Grand after the Grand American Handicap.

    I, and most other shooters, could live with beginning the target in either the middle of August or two weeks later on the first of September. I am pleased that it no longer is the first of November or the first of October.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. NintyT

    NintyT Member

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    Dr Longshot, Thanks for plainly stating what I meant to say. It just seems to me that after the Grand has ended, all targets shot should count towards the next target year. I did not mean to imply that there should not be any shoots held after the Grand. As pointed out above, the program states that targets shot the first day after the last Grand go towards the target requirements for the next Grand. That makes sense, but it also makes sense to have the target year start at that same time.

    As it is, some of last years targets (Aug 23, 2009 - Aug 31, 2009) will count towards the 2010 Grand, along with those targets shot during the 2009-2010 target year.

    As for "all our efforts", I meant to say the efforts of individual shooters to improve and peak their performance at the most prestigious of events. Although, I must acknowledge that not everyone attends the Grand, or sets this as their personal goal.

    Steve Johnson
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Steve, I doubt that targets shot this August will count toward Target Minimums for the 2010 Grand. This year was a special case I think will go away.

    Neil
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Neil I agree with you but unfortunately it is stated in the current(2009)rulebook and I think by changing in the 09 rulebook the BOD may have opened another can of worms.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. magic

    magic Member

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    I agree....I think it should be this way. Let the GAH be the GRAND. Everything after....becomes next year. Just my opinion.
     
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