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FS Engraved 20ga Win M-12

Discussion in 'For Sale- Members only' started by dolphin77, May 24, 2012.

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  1. dolphin77

    dolphin77 Member

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    Beautiful 20 ga Win M-12. Barrel is 28" Mod with vent rib(the rib appears to be a Simmons made/style rib, but Simmons is not stamped on the rib, which makes me think the rib was installed at the Winchester factory). The gun is beautifully engraved with a pattern similiar the the factory 12-1, but has additional engraving in othe areas. Stocked with beautiful Pidgeon grade wood. I purchased the gun from a dealer in So. Cal. and was told that it came from a collection of an older gentleman that was selling his guns..this gun was purchased from a Winchester factory rep. The serial # 894xxx....$2395 shipped in the US to your FFL...Thanks, WC
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  2. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    You beat me to it.
     
  3. southjblue

    southjblue Active Member

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    That gun may not be factory but it's a beauty---JMO---SJB
     
  4. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    Interesting Gun, Excellent stock. Thank you for posting !!


    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  5. dolphin77

    dolphin77 Member

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    It is either a factory rib or a Simmons rib.....Simmons ribs were installed by Simmons in Kanas but were also installed at the Winchester Factory....since the rib is not stamped "Simmons" I think it was likely installed at the Winchester factory.
     
  6. blaster

    blaster Member

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    Simmons ribs were never installed at the Winchester factory. If you know any thing about model 12s you can tell at a glance this is a sommons rib. You should change your add. It is definatly not a factory rib.

    Smoken
     
  7. dolphin77

    dolphin77 Member

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    Actually Simmons made ribs for Winchester at different times, some were installed at the Winchester factory, some guns were sent to Simmons for the ribs to be installed....if you will check the books by Madis, Riffle, and others you will find that out...WC
     
  8. flabigpapa

    flabigpapa Well-Known Member

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    I Think..what they are saying is that, Factory Vent Rb ..Gun would and should have Duck Bill...Not Field Machine Matt across the top of Reciever..with Simmons Rib Extenion.
    And Yes , you are Right about Simmons Ribs on Winchester's...Model 42's and the Heavy Duck..Super Speed / Super X 12ga. models...Not Your 20ga.
    Nice Looking Gun.
    Shoot Well..Shoot Often,with Good Friends, Bart
     
  9. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    Dolphin, nice gun! Ignore the ignorant model 12 Know it alls. I don't think any of them can read. Their Daddy or buddy told them that Simmons didn't do work for Winchester and that's all it takes for them to believe it. Simmons did install ribs for Winchester!!!!!
     
  10. Willimon1

    Willimon1 Member

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    A true beauty of a model 12. The blueing and engraving look nicely done.
     
  11. WS-1

    WS-1 Banned User Banned

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    Dolphin,

    Yours is a beautiful gun.

    In the interest of sound scholarship, the serial number of your gun would suggest it was built in 1941. Vent rib guns manufactured by Winchester had solid milled ribs until 1953. Records indicate that Simmons opened for business in 1945. The posts on your gun appear to be latter production posts not unlike Simmons posts. Are they soldered on to the barrel? Is it possible that your gun was upgraded by a very competent gunsmith and engraver in the late 50s?

    It's all academic to me and it just makes our favorite shotgun just a little more interesting. Somebody told me a long time ago that "all Winchesters are the same except for all the ones that are different."
     
  12. dolphin77

    dolphin77 Member

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    Winchester did custom work, rework, refit, repair, added ribsetc for years. They built and sold M-12s made from spare and leftover parts. Since the history of this gun is that it came from a Winchester Factory Rep. I believe the rib was installed at the Winchester factory....Thanks WS-1, Kolardude, and others....its amazing how folks on this site love to rip anyone they get the chance to.....WC
     
  13. WS-1

    WS-1 Banned User Banned

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    WC,

    I beg "A thousand pardons". I promise you I wasn't ripping your gun. If I could afford it, I'd buy it. The wood is the most perfect I've ever seen on a Model 12. I was only trying to convey that so many different examples exist in so many different incarnations and that, to me, they are all intriguing.

    Best regards,

    Kit Thomas
     
  14. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    Several points which would incline me to say this gun is "factory". 1, The rib does NOT have "Simmons" stamped on the left side above the chamber. 2, There appears to be a Winchester proof stamp on the barrel, had this been an aftermarket installation, the proof mark would be under the rib. Only ribbed guns from the factory have the proof mark offset to the left on the barrel. 3, The engraving seems to be an unfinished Pigeon #1, 2 or 3. The ring in the center of the receiver would have a Pointer, Duck or Quail in it, this would determine either a 1, 2 or 3. Another Model 50 on this site appears to have #4 pattern..The wood is very close to what would have been original on a rep.s gun. I have owned over 20 model 12 graded guns some with letters some which I bought new. Also, my father in-law owned several mod. 12s & 42 which he bought from his life long friend, Loren Booker. Loren was a Win. rep back when they hired shooters. My father in-law's guns from Loren always sported very nice wood.
     
  15. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    This IS a Simmons rib on a 20.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Proof marks mean nothing as you or anyone else can buy the stamp from Numerich arms. Many 12 and 42 guns had the "simmons'filled and removed but to be factory ,it must be a cataloged rib from the right time frame of serial number. The clean up guns are a few exceptions but only with cataloged styles.The gun is beautiful and worth every penny you are asking plus in my opinion. Jeff
     
  17. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Notice that this rib is on a Model 12 3" Super Speed and Super X gun. That and model 42s were the only models with Winchester ribs and extensions of that style FROM THE FACTORY (without getting into special order situations). I have had both.

    Whatever the questions re rib, wood, etc the gun is worth the asking price or more.
     
  18. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Claybrdr, what "style" of rib and extension are you referring to that was only available on the 3" Model 12 and the Model 42?
     
  19. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    If the OP is reading his serial number correctly, his gun did not come out of the factory at time of original manufacture as a vent rib gun.
     
  20. Nutso

    Nutso Member

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    Take it to the guest expert on Pawn Stars, he'll tell you if its factory..just kidding.

    To me this debate is very interesting, espiecally for a one who has a M12 Trap on his bucket list. Frankly I wouldn't have a clue as to what I'm looking at, so I've decided to simply look for a good condition shooter with a affordable price.

    Love this gun but its out of my price point for this purchase.

    Very nice gun, I would be proud to count it as one of mine.
     
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