1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

from the steel mill...

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by spitter, May 4, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    It's not the arrow, but the indian...

    Naperville Sportsman's Club hosted an ATA target-only event last Sunday and the High Singles were a pair of 94s and the High Handicap was a 95.

    League Shooters squadded for some make-up league rounds (50), due to the previous week's flooding... a couple members posted 48s with one running a straight 50.

    Separately... congrats to Kevin Umsted for running a 100 straight on Sunday...

    regards all,

    Jay
     
  2. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,915
    Location:
    Thousand Oaks Ca
    All these shooters were shooting Steel shot?
     
  3. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Grunt...

    It's all we can throw with our environmental permit...

    Regards,

    Jay
     
  4. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,915
    Location:
    Thousand Oaks Ca
    Thats what I thought. Shows good scores can be shot with steel at least from short yardages. I havent shot much steel shot but I have played around reloading some and it shot ok from 16 yard line , Never shot any further back. Dave
     
  5. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Dave...

    In all fairness, there are only a few of us in the 21-23 yardages... but when we shoot our games from the back yardage... the Dove or our turkey shoot... we break more than our fair share using factory #7s.

    Last year for our Handicap Shoot (4 rounds, 25 from 21, 23, 25 & 27) I ended up taking HOA with a 92... although, I think we've done better in years past.

    Joe Kuhn has done quite a bit working with #6s, but until the ATA considers #6 as a legal shot size, most will stick to 7s...

    Regards

    Jay
     
  6. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,106
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Nothing scientific except to note that #6 steel has the same pellet energy, at all yardages, as #7-1/2 in lead. Here's an old Remington website with their data:


    [​IMG]
     
  7. Ogallala_1

    Ogallala_1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    36
    I have been wondering about the steel shot differences, what does a flat of steel shot cost? Where do you find steel shot target loads? Thanks in advance. John
     
  8. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Joe...

    We still need to bring the velocities comparable... we can't shoot 1365 in #6 or #7 to be ATA legal... I wonder if SAAMI could do a computer model run for us... I'll call...

    John... regarding costs for factory steel... we're presently offering the Winchester Xpert product, which is presently running $65.00/10 boxes. In the past, we have also offered

    Remington Sportsmens Steel

    Winchester Western White Box

    Federal Duck and Pheasant

    Rio Steel

    Federal Target Steel

    Early On... Winchester AA Steel and Remington's STS Steel...

    #7s, typically 1oz (Federal Target - 9/8oz), 1325fps all work as a steel target-type receipe.

    Most any shop stocking ammo will carry (during reasonable times) the Winchester Xpert product, sometimes in 4-box promo pack in #7 as well as #6...

    regards all,

    Jay
     
  9. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Z...

    #7... in steel shot.

    Jay
     
  10. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,106
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Jay,

    No, I don't believe we have to downgrade the speeds for the rule (in the graph) to hold. The rule still holds as long as the speeds are close. I believe we could roll the off the edge of a table and they would hit the floor with the same force. I don't know the specific physics behind this, but I believe that's how mass and force works. I should take 100 pellets of #6 steel and 100 of 7-1/2 lead and see what they weigh.

    Joe
     
  11. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Joe...

    from the rulebook, page 49, Section 13G3... A contestant cannot use...

    "Any load with a velocity greater than 1290 FPS (Feet Per Second) with maximum shot charge of 1 1/8 ounces, or 1325 FPS with a maximum shot charge of 1 ounce, or 1350 FPS with a maximum shot charge of 7/8 ounces or less, as measured in any individual shotshell. These velocities are maximum and no individual shotshell shall exceed these limits for the designated shot charge. In addition, no load containing more than 1 1/8 ounces or any shot larger than Number 7 1/2 can be used. Shot charges are maximum and no charge may exceed the charge amount by more than 3%. Steel shot in Number 7 will be acceptable as long as velocity criteria are the same as for lead shot shells."

    I'm not reading any wiggle room as it pertains to velocity... I had to re-read the section a couple times - only the shot charge appears to be given a maximum 3% variance... velocities are set maximums... using the 1365fps as illustrated above, exceeds even the 7/8oz shot charge... Nice to see steel shot officially approved in the rule book...

    Further, I'm working a couple leads to see if I can acquire some respected energy data using traditional 2-3/4 and 3 dram speeds @1145-1200fps... I'll keep you apprised. I expect the numbers to overwhelmingly favor lead, but that bodes well for pushing the acceptance of #6s...

    Jay
     
  12. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,106
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Sorry Jay. My post isn't clear. I'm talking about the rule demonstrated in the graph, not the ATA rule.
     
  13. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Joe:

    I stumbled upon an article by Randy Wakeman from Plainfield...

    His contention is that the above chart, as promoted by Remington (but as I appear to understand it, not Remington Data) is actually promoting old incorrect data and that past ballistic charts appear to over-promote the actual performance of lead and under-promote the performance of steel.

    Just an FYI and I don't know where this puts us at this point...

    Jay
     
  14. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,106
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Randy Wakeman is from Plainfield, IL? omg. Lead is over promoted and steel is under promoted? Sheesh. Will have to read his article.
     
  15. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,106
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Lowry's ballistics chart in black and white doesn't give us anything to compare because the velocities are different between lead and steel to start with. Too bad.

    Where does this leave us? Wanting comparable ballistics that are accurate. Randy doesn't offer any, his point being, there isn't any.

    Thanks Jay.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.