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Frightening experience today

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Ross, Jun 28, 2008.

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  1. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    was scorekeeper today on trap 3 at local club when shooter had heart attack & collapsed , fortunately his gun was EMPTY & open. can you imagine possible consequ ences,had his gun been loaded & closed???so PLEASE keep it open & safe until its your turn to shoot THEN load & close the action..Ross Puls
     
  2. Rick Jordon

    Rick Jordon TS Member

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    Is the shooter okay?
     
  3. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    yes as good luck would have it,,luckily there was a Dr. shooting also & another shooter had a defibulater right in their truck, 911 sent ambulance very quickly got word that he was doing o.k. in hospital. saying an extra prayer for him tonight. sorry i should have put that in original thread,,20 lashes comeing my way. ross
     
  4. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Damn, that was lucky...wonder how long until AEDs become standard equipment at big trap shoots?
     
  5. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Something I put up a while back.

    Some good links in regard to AEDs

    http://www.losttarget.com/defib.htm
     
  6. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Zara, If it makes you feel any better I am with you on that one. There is no reason whatsoever to close your gun before it is your time to shoot, period. A BAsic safty rule. No shooter is Skeet or in Sporting clays can even load there gun until he/she is in the station and must unload before he/she leaves any station. Only in trap have I seen this done. I have seen shooters fire at their target only to unload and load and close their gun before the second shooter after has even shot. No reason for this. I too have got third degree for expressing this, as I will again now I am sure. But if I have kept just one shooter from doing this it is well worth it. Be safe and Break-em all. Jeff
     
  7. napawino

    napawino TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    At a recent shoot at our club, we had a trap malfuction. I asked everyone on the line to unload and step back from the line. All five shooters had to open their actions and remove a loaded round. I was shocked that every shooter had a loaded and ready to shoot shotgun.
    Fred Wiedemann
     
  8. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    I also believe it is an unsafe practice to close the gun before the rotation gets to you, though I have no problem putting a live round in a break open gun as long as the gun is open. Ever since I've started shooting 4 years ago, I've always left my gun open with a shell sitting in the chamber. Then when it's my turn, I close my gun, shoot the bird, open the gun, pull the hull out, and put a new round in a wait until it is my turn, then it all starts over. I just don't know what I would do with my gun (BT-99) if it was closed and ready while I was waiting for it to get to me, I rest the muzzle on my toe with it open now, I just can't imagine how tired my arms would be holding that thing up for an entire round...Josh
     
  9. TOLIPNUG

    TOLIPNUG TS Member

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    I PUT A LIVE ROUND IN THE BREACH IMMEDIATELY AFTER I SHOOT, BUT LEAVE THE BREECH OPEN UNTIL THE SHOOTER TI MY LEFT SHOOTS-HELPS MOVE THE SQUAD ALOMG, IS WELL WITHIN ATA RULES AND IS COMPLETELY SAFE-RICK ZINO
     
  10. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    So how was he shooting before the heart attack?

    Do ya think it might have been health related or shooting related ... possibly shooting so poorly or shooting so well that his heart just couldn't take it.

    Glad to hear he is doing well and hope he makes a full recovery and is back to finish his round soon.

    Ross ... that was not a 20 lashing mistake, maybe 12 or 13 lashes but most definitely not a 20 lasher.
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    We have a defib unit right by the door going out to the fields.

    So many old guys in our club, the expense never raised an eyebrow.

    HM
     
  12. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    Soooooooo; How do we handle it when a shooter's turn comes, he loads his safely unloaded gun, he safely closes his gun, safely keeping it downrange, he safely raises it (keeping it downrange) to call for a target, sets his unsafe release trigger, calls and has a heart attack at that instant. Maybe we should just outlaw loaded guns completely just to be ultra ultra safe. Jimmy Borum

    PS: Yes, I know, I know, I'm being facetious. I was just remembering all the major shooting accidents and gun deaths of our comrades over the years of ATA registered trapshooting. We are a careless and crass less society with all our loaded guns, release triggers, young competing kids and lack of safety rules.
     
  13. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Zara,

    Are you stating that closing the gun prior to your turn to shoot is illegal? If yes, please explain.

    Also, how are the insurance companies going to "show us how acceptable this is"? Are you implying they will deny a claim because of a closed action when it didn't need to be closed?

    I do agree with the lawyer part though.

    Tom
     
  14. trpshtr2001

    trpshtr2001 TS Member

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    Regardless of open vs loaded etc , this is a great post and should not be taken lightly. All gun clubs should read this.
     
  15. at_trap_89

    at_trap_89 TS Member

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    I find it interesting someone would brag about using a toe rest in thread of this nature. Rule No. 1.. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction - never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot. I guess some people don't value their feet and toes, but worry more about a closed gun pointed downrange. Don't give me the party line that its "open" [therefore "safe"] on your toe if you're going to whine about closed guns on a hot-range or rally to make the "open or out" rule absolute [as in including the firing line - on that note we should extend it to gun racks too after-all, we can never be too laywer proof].

    "Keep your gun unloaded until you're ready to shoot"...thats the shooters decision to decide when they're ready. If you're that bothered by a closed gun on the firing line, try this - don't close your gun, but mount the buttpad into your shoulder and call for a target...cause no one should be "ready and shooting" until a target is in the air right? Lets make the sport completely Philadelphia laywer proof by listening to the ambulance chase whiners on TS.com.

    In my time on the trapfield I've never seen an AD as a result of a gun closed before a turn..I have seen multiple instances of a shooter ADing trying to dismount a gun with a release trigger, or letting it go prematurely, or someone simply pulling a pull trigger prematurely and patterning the trap house. Based on that, I think we should ban/make all triggers illegal, ok? [sarcasm]

    And an FYI, in singles and caps I close my gun when its my turn or just before the person before me mounts and shoots. In doubles I reload and close because by the time I dismount, eject, grab two new shells and get them in there, its almost my turn again usually. Actually I'm just sick of certain people trying to impose themselves on other shooters - I don't care what your procedure is as long as its safe, and theres nothing unsafe about a closed gun on a hot shooting line pointed down range. If you feel safe using a toe rest, DO IT..you're not affecting me so do it. I also don't care about "rythm", I paid for MY targets and I'll shoot them as I please, and its not anyone elses fault but my OWN, when I miss whether a sqaudmate sneezes, farts, shoot fast/slow, or bounces auto shells off me..but thats another thread. Unless someone is pointing their gun at or near you, shut up and shoot..

    PS. Zara maybe you'd have a 98-99% average if you didn't worry about other people so much. As for the "no other sport allows" comment, skeet and SC are not trap..you don't have 5 people on the line. So lets compare to apples to apples - I've seen this practice in 5-stand...so now whats your arguement? I've also seen many a pistol or rifle bullseye match shooter put a gun down and even take a step back while its still loaded...you were saying?
     
  16. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Ok, I'm really stupid enough to be holding my gun with the action closed on my toe. What does it matter if the muzzle of the gun is resting on my foot, I don't close the gun while it's there. Is a nail going to come flying out of space and hit the primer of my loaded shell and make it discharge? Doubt it! It has been part of my set-up for 4 years, and I seem to break targets better when I keep it in my set-up. I see no reason to be worried about "breaking the rhythm of a group", I go at my own pace whether people think it's too slow or too fast, I keep myself from thinking I am being rushed. It is my target and I can shoot it however slow or fast I like. JMO, Josh.
     
  17. at_trap_89

    at_trap_89 TS Member

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    Zara: You're reaching.

    Josh: Reread my post as that was my point..if we're going to argue how "dangerous" having a closed gun pointed downrange on a hot firing line and how it violates a "basic rule of safety" lets take on the toe rest next as your foot isn't any more safe of a direction than your hand or head. This whole thread simply reminds me of every time I hear someone come off the line bitching about how this guy shoots too slow and ruins the rythm, or that guy farted when I shot and made me miss, et al. If it doesn't affect you don't worry about it...if someone can come up with an example of someone getting shot or injured by a closed gun out of turn I'm all ears otherwise this is moot...every AD I've ever seen, it was the shooters turn.
     
  18. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Zara,

    The "OPEN OR OUT" signs probably mean different things to different people. To you they must mean action open until your turn to shoot. To me it means action open when you're not on the firing line AND when you're placing your gun in the gun rack.

    Who knows what it meant to the BOD of the club that posted it. So it would be wrong to assume that the club is allowing one of its rules to be violated if people are closing their actions before it's their turn to shoot.

    As far as loading up an autoloader with five shells....well there's an ATA rule prohibiting this. Non ATA would be up to the club.

    AT-TRAP, I've seen AD by closing the gun. Happened to me two different times. I guess both could be blamed on me as one was a dirty gun, one was a worn part.

    What scares me the most about the early closers (I am one of them) is when something abnormal happens. When some turn to the look back at the scorer the muzzle tends to follow the head and shoulders. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen. I make it a practice to open my gun before I turn to take a look. I've also made it a habit when someone gets more than a couple broken targets in a row.

    I'm probably a hipocrate, but I don't let my 14yr old son close his action until it's his turn to shoot. I won't let him rest the muzzle on his toe with a shell in the chamber either. No shell, no problem. Although SCTP and 4H don't allow this practice at all.

    I will say though, as a group, trapshooters practice very good firearm safety.

    Tom
     
  19. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Zara,

    SECTION 3,I,12 A contestant shall place a live shell in his/her gun only when on a post facing the traps. In singles and Handicap shooting he/she may place only one (1) live shell in his/her gun at a time and must remove it or the empty shell(s) before moving from one post to another. In Doubles shooting he/she may place two (2) live shells in his/her gun at a time and must remove both live or empty shells before moving from one (1) post to another.

    This is from the 2005 printing. I didn't take the time to check the ATA site for an update.
     
  20. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    The ATA seems to be silent on this.

    Why no OFFICIAL position?? That would have to come from an ATA OFFICIAL.

    Contact your delegate and have him/her bring it up at a meeting.
     
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