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FREEZING BARRELS AT EXTREMLY LOW TEMPS

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    HELLO:
    a friend of mine had a rem90T that he sent to a company years ago to have the barrel frozen at at tremendously low temperature. my friend has since past away and i wanted to find out what company offered this service and are they still in business, and what did this deep freezing supposely do for the barrel? was this a gimic, or any real benefit? anyone have it done?
    steve balistreri
     
  2. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    GIMIC...if it did anything positive every high dollar trap gun would be frozen by the maker. Kinda' reminds me of lengthening the forcing cones...useless!!
     
  3. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Not entirely a gimmick: evil spirits are driven off by low temps.

    J.D Faltin and I used to offer a similar service at the MTA. We stored the barrel in a 1938 Nash-Kelvinator refrigerator for three months while periodically dancing widdershins around it. Worked like a charm, but unfortunately, J.D.'s dancing days are over.
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Proper cryogenic treatment does improve performance of some metals such as bearings. I am not sure how it would effect barrels. Dennis DeVault believes it can improve them and he certainly knows more about barrels than I do.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Lots of companies do it for bench rest rifles. Wayne
     
  6. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    It's very common to cryogenically freeze stainless match rifle barrel blanks before drilling, reaming, and rifling. This helps relieve manufacturing stresses. It's also easier on the barrel makers tooling. I would also like to add that Shilen claims that after much R&D they have been unable to measure any changes in molecular stress after cyro treatment, so they don't endorse it.They also noted it is not detrimental to the barrel either as Leo found out.
     
  7. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    As a match rifle shooter, I had two identical rifles built for each class at a time. (The "B" rifle for minor matches, the "A" rifle saved for State, Regional, and National level events) The year I shot service rifle class with custom AR's I bought two barrel blanks from the same barrel maker, and had them fitted and chambered by the same gunsmith. I sent one off to be cryo dipped for the accuracy and barrel life claims. Every rifle I competed with had a log book with exact round count, match conditions and maintenance. Neither barrel had an edge over the other for accuracy, and both of them started to loose a little accuracy after 4200 or so rounds as the throat erroded. At least cryo did not hurt anything. Since I had not tested the barrels before the treatment, maybe the cryo dipped one was not as good at the start, but both performed within the acceptable limits.

    On the other side, there are some premium barrels made by a hammer forging process. The stress releaving effect of cryo treatment actually deteriorates the performance of these barrels. As shotgun barrels are low pressure, there is no rifling and the throat does not have to absorb the shock of a solid projectile with 55,000 PSI pushing it, I do not know what would be gained. If I am overlooking something, I am willing to learn.

    In my opinion, it is like a lot of things, if it feels good, do it.
     
  8. Dave P

    Dave P TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Steve: I think the company you're looking for is/was called 300 Below and was located in Illinois, Lincoln or Decatur I think. You might do a search.
     
  9. digger1dog

    digger1dog Member

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    MTA Tom,

    That was funny!!!!But JD did take my Krieghoff barrel last summer and kept it for three or four days, when he returned it he was sweating a lot while wearing a pair of pink chaps and dancin' shoes, and I shot 399/400 in two singles events...hmmmm and to think of it that barrel was kind of cold when I got it back...

    Fred J
     
  10. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Fred

    If J.D. had still been in top dancing form, you'd have broken 400.

    Sad. One by one, the great oldtimers fade away.
     
  11. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    if memory serves me right, my friend believed having this process done it would still make the barrel shoot straight even after a long hot day of shooting. at the time he did this, i thought it was a gimic, but seems to have some benefits to it with rifle shooters. the reason i brought this subject up, a friend of mine said he knows the guy who now owns the barrel and was going to ask him if he wanted to trade. i told my friend to keep what he's got. if the barrels were placed in 200 to 300 below zero, if they were droped at this temp i would think they would break like glass.
    steve
     
  12. oakridge

    oakridge TS Member

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    Several years ago I worked as an engineer in a factory where we used auto feeding screwdrivers for very high volume screw assembly. We would wear out and replace the screw tips weekly. I sent several lots of screw tips to a company in Los Angeles for their special freezing process that they claimed would extend the life of the parts. Over a million parts tested in a controlled test and we saw absolutely no improvement.
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    American rifleman did test it. Some barrels got better, some worse, some didn't
    change.

    Neil
     
  14. 20yard

    20yard TS Member

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    I'm not a metalurgist but have some experience with this in high stressed or dimesionally critical engine parts. The steel after heat treat has retained austenite in its structure. This austenite will transform with time and stress to martensite and during this transformation strength and dimensions change. To force this transformation steels can be supercooled and the transformation occurs. It makes sense on the rifles where minimal dimensional changes in use are the goal for shotgun we shouldn't care.
     
  15. al391claybuster

    al391claybuster TS Member

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    I've used the guys listed above for choke tubes. Thanks David
     
  16. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    call jay at moneymakers guncraft- their neighbor to the shop , does it - i cant think of the name? he wud also give you the lowdown on it!
     
  17. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    Benelli cryo freezes their barrel. They claim it evens out the pattern with larger shot. My SBE-II patterns #2 and #3 steel very nicely. I'm sure some barrels benefit from the process; but I bet finding the right load is the real answer.
     
  18. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

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    To answer the question I have been freezing our barrels since 1992. It has a benefit to certain metals and this is not theory but a process that I studied and trained for at The Timken Roller Bearing Compnay where I served my apprentiship years ago. The company that did this process commercially was 300 Below and they started doing rifle barrels. The process that I have used is very different than what is done commercially and this process can only be done to certain materials. As most folks that have commented here think it is a hoax there is no need to go any further with the discussion or technical information.

    Dennis DeVault
     
  19. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Dennis:
    Although I don't know you personally, I have seen some of the great work you do. with you having training in this field I would value you opinion in this matter. First, what does the low temperature actually do to a trap barrel? Would all barrels benefit from this procedure?
    thanks,
    steve balistreri
     
  20. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    We have a Gabriel shock absorber plant here..well it used to be Gabriel it has changed names a few time here lately, they have a continous running tube mill that makes the steel tubes for the shocks, it has a "flying shear" made into the mill, for years I re ground the hss shear blades for it, on average I would do 20 a week, they were 1/4 thick, 6 inches wide and 8 inches long, some guy came by and started freezing the blades, my work went from 20 a week to 5-6 a week.. but this isnt a gun barrel either...
     
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