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? for bunker shooters

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kiwiG, May 23, 2008.

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  1. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Hi Guys, Do you personally subscribe to the theory that bunker guns should shoot flatter than trap guns? Cheers-Graham.
     
  2. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    YES...

    TB
     
  3. florin

    florin TS Member

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    Absolutely

    Florin
     
  4. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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  5. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Thanks guys. The weather isn't too flash here in New Zealand, but the bunker at my local club is open today so I'm having a crack at it. On your advice I'll put tighter chokes in my 30in skeet gun, rather than use my U/O trapgun. Kind Regards-Graham.
     
  6. BULLDOG71

    BULLDOG71 TS Member

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    What would you consider the max POI to be? I own a dedicated bunker gun, and I am trying to get the gun set up. I have been considering setting it similar to my singles/cap gun at about 65/35-70/30, and getting a little higher rib.

    Thanks for any input!
     
  7. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Some even shoot em' at 50/50. Probably about 60/40 is most common. As for Mike's suggestion of a field gun, the gun that Kim Rhode shoots and has always shot has essentially field dimensions. Jake
     
  8. BULLDOG71

    BULLDOG71 TS Member

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    Thanks a lot for the responses, and all the great info you share Mike (esp the load data). My gun shoots in the 60/40 and 50/50 range I can shoot the bottom barrel well, but struggle with the top barrel. It is a huge change, and getting practical info really helps.

    Doug
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Based on my style and preferences, I prefer 70/30 to 80/20 for all shooting disciplines. I pefer SK/SK for the obvious, and F/F for everything else. I sometimes use IMOD for the first shot of ATA Dubs, if I remember to change the choke. The difference of the chokes is mental more than material.

    I am left handed, left eye dominant, and shoot right handed two eyed. Using discipline, sports hypnosis and a high patterning shotgun helps prevent me from crossfiring or bead checking. The Hi Viz pipe system works well for me. It is in my peripheral vision, and I do not look through it, but over it.

    I use the same POI, the pattern centered 6 to 8 inches high with full chokes at 13 yards, for all disciplines. As an old country boy, I use ONE TECHNIQUE, and it works for me.

    Oddly enough, this skewed technique works very well for Bunker. First of all, it is FUN. It is also a CHALLENGE. Every target is very hittable, if flaws in one's techniques can be overcome.

    Being left handed, my PRECISION hand controls, supports, and points the gun. Since a high level of physical fitness is cardinal for my profession, I am very strong for a "senior citizen" and have the needed endurance to shoot this game. Reflexes are in the one-sixth second range, and this, combined with Les Greevy's "Quiet Eye" technique, allows me to quickly acquire and attack the target. Some days, health issues take their toll, but it is part of the hand I have been dealt.

    I have taken a logical approach and minimized or worked around my many weaknesses, and have taken advantage of my strengths. And having fun doing it!

    Your mileage may definitely vary! LOL
     
  10. Allen Chubb

    Allen Chubb Active Member

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    Sportshot,

    I didn't leave the website because of the MX-2005 commentary but in fact if you check, that poster never filed a retort and has not been on the website since contributing to any other thread. Quite to the contrary, I contributed to a number of other successful threads regarding the "Bunker" topic. I later found out who the person was that made the ridiculous comments. All I have to say about him is that when you polish a turd, it still stinks.

    The reason I haven't been on the website is that some of us do have lifes and once the weather broke, I was able to get out and start training again for the season, not to mention my son's baseball season and my business commitments. I've have been corresponding via email with new friends from the website like PerazziBigBore.

    Let's get back to the question at hand. The standard range among competitive OT shooters in 50/50 to 60/40. Getting any higher like 70/30 is gambling. I'm presently sitting in Desenzano Del Garda, Italy finishing the third day of a twenty five day Olympic Trapshooting European Grand Prix tour with several other gentlemen. The high shooting MX-2005 debate only exists in the U.S. The European shooters are amused by this commentary and shake their heads in collective amazement over this non-issue in their books. We trained with Giovanni "Johnny" Pellielo yesterday on his range in Vercelli. During one of our conversations at lunch, the MX-2005 topic came up again. Johnny rolled his eyes and just started laughing. You can say and think what you want, but when a man that has won (2) Olympic Medals, (2) World Championships, (5) World Cup Final Medals and countless World Cup Medals rolls his eyes and starts laughing, then you should probably end the discussion and move onto more relevant topics, such as the weather.

    Without trying to offend anyone or step on any toes, I think this whole matter of an elevated rib gun for OT was started for gun sale purposes only. Please consider that most every serious OT shooter in America already owns either an MX-8, MX-2000, 682, SO-4, SO-5, DT-10 or K-80. Having said that, I would be willing to bet that there are no more than (25) new solely dedicated OT guns sold in America each year by all three manufacturers. Interestingly enough, you'll note that both Beretta and Kreighoff are not jumping into this whole high-rib debate with any new models recommended for OT. Yes, the MX-2005 would be a great Double Trap gun, but the OT is pretty much reserved for flat ribbed guns for very good reasons as previously stated in the other thread.

    The high rib gun debate can continue to rage for all long as you all want it to. I would like each of you to consider that when every major competitor from all four corners of the world competes with a flat ribbed gun with a 50/50 to 60/40 POI then maybe this should be a hint to the novices entering and presently competing in the sport. Please also consider that every "World Class" coach is not recommending this type of gun to their students, regardless of losing gun sales. It would be wise to understand that ones search for the magic mechanical miracle that will hopefully take them to the next plateau will be most likely met with inconsistent scoring and disappointment. One should consider the fact that you are competing in the most difficult shotgun game known to man and there is no magic mechanical miracle. There is no substitute for talent, proper coaching and endless months, years and decades of proper training to achieve success in this sport.

    I don't know if many of you realize that they also celebrate Memorial Day in Europe as well. I saw some services on Italian Television a few minutes ago and I hope that each of you took a few minutes today to remember those that have fallen for our country. Don't ever forget the real heros!!!!!!!

    Best Regards and Ciao from Italy,

    Allen Chubb
     
  11. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Allen:

    Had an opportunity to shoot one of the new MX2008 High Rib Bunker Guns at Benning last week. After five rounds I gave it back to the owner. Could not determine where it was shooting also it swings like a fence post. Guy Avedisian has one of these high rib deals on order. He thinks that once its adjusted it will shoot right but here are son many adjustments I wonder if its possible, I agree it sounds like a sales gimiic Dave Senter also has one coming.

    Good luck...

    Tom
     
  12. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Just how high DOES the High Rib MX2008 gun shoot? Did you check POI on papaer? I use a high shooter at everything, but I shoot bass ackwards! LOL

    As old as I am and as long as I have been shooting the way I do, I don't know how much good it would do for an ancient dog to try to learn new tricks.
     
  13. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Don't know how high it was as it was not my gun. I do know it was a very HEAVEY barrel. Something like 1.65 KG PLUS the Brooklyn bridge rib so it weighed a ton and swung like a 34" KOLAR I once shot. Sorry its not for me. Word has it that you have to adjust it just so or it does not shoot. When Piello, Erickson, Diamond, etc start shooting one I might look again but until the I will stick with a flat or low step rib.

    Tom
     
  14. dennis toews

    dennis toews Member

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    I would like to ask another question since we are talking about guns for bunker trap. I am looking for a shotgun to purchase, I have come to the conclusion most shooters prefer a 30" barrel or close, in addition what weight range should an over/under fall in? Is it possible to use one gun to shoot bunker as well as sporting clays? I have been looking at the Perazzi with the adjustable rib, would it be possible to settle on one gun to do both? Thanks in advance.
     
  15. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    "Without trying to offend anyone or step on any toes, I think this whole matter of an elevated rib gun for OT was started for gun sale purposes only".

    I'm of the same mind Allen.

    I hope you will do us the favor of another travelogue this year. The pictures and commentary from the last set of threads on bunker shooting were of great interest and your first hand account was fabulous.

    My own shooting is purely recreational, my son is the bunker shooter in the family. I rattled off 11 straight yesterday before dropping a bird which for me is great shooting - need to work on my 2nd barrel as it is worthless.

    Mike - you are so right on about shooting instinctively. My own (limited) experience tells me when I let the shot happen and let my legs and hips do the work that my brain fires the shotgun like "magic" when it see the correct sight picture. Making a good shot on a difficult bunker presentation is a wonderful feeling. Very addicting.
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    In defensive firearms shooting there is a term, "unconsciously competent".

    You KNOW what to do without conscious thought. The cognitive brain sets up the pre shot routine, then allows the reactive brain to take command. The only hitch to this is that the reactive brain is like a ROM, or Read Only Memory! One must download data into the reactive brain by training and practice.

    A burning desire to destroy every target helps re enforce your training. I would rather shoot a 22 on a round of Bunker than a 100 straight at ATA ANY DAY. I have run a bunch of ATA 100's, been close on Bunker.

    The 24 gram loads DO like tight chokes. I use bore matched Angleport F/F. They are 35 points, vaporize a target on the first shot, and get an authoritative break on the second shot. These chokes really boil a bird on the ATA field!
     
  17. hoggy

    hoggy TS Member

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    I suck at bunker but I shoot my K80 trap setup better than my sporting setup. 80/20 vs 55/45. So for me I shoot a higher shooting gun better for Bunker. May be what ever you're more used to.
     
  18. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Hi Guys, The advice was sound...for the limited info I provided. I shot 16, probably 10 of them with the 2nd barrel as I just couldn't get the barrels (up)to the bird. I am shooting Automatic Ball Trap (halfway between wobble and bunker) in a coupla weeks...I'll shoot my U/O trap gun, which is actually a bit quicker pointing than my sporter. Cheers-Graham.
     
  19. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    what does OT stand for?
     
  20. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    OT stands for Olympic Trap.

    Mike - i should have reworded my statement regarding my worthless 2nd barrel - there isn't anything wrong with the 2nd barrel, it's the idjit behind the stock that is the problem. I use my son's MX3 Special when i shoot bunker and the 2nd barrel is fine, choked very tight and patterns great (and HE has no problem hitting with the 2nd barrel when he needs to). It's ME. I just cannot get the timing down for making an effective 2nd shot.
     
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