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? For Bunker Guys

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Spanky, Mar 13, 2011.

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  1. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    I'm anxiously waiting to shoot some bunker for the first time in the near coming weeks. I live to be humbled and I'm sure my hands at bunker will do just this.

    I do not know the rules but feel that I will fit in fine after watching and asking some questions.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you guys shoot 7/8 oz. @ 1300+ fps. And my reason for asking is, will it be o.k. for me to shoot my 1 1/8 oz. trap loads at this? This is only gonna be a practice shooting experience. But I do want to comply. Is this a common situation? Thanks for the help, Spank.
     
  2. jkirk

    jkirk TS Member

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    ISSF rules state that shot charge must not exceed 24.5 g, or approximately 7/8 ounce. But, that's in competition. You can shoot whatever in practice. Of course there would be greater recoil/muzzle jump with the heavier load, making it harder to get on target for your second shot.
     
  3. deercreek

    deercreek Well-Known Member

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    I shot my 1oz trap loads at about 1200 fps for the first shot then, I shot 3 dram 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 factory loads for my second shot if needed. I can see where the speed might help in this game but my loads broke them ok when I put the shot where it needed to be. I have shot this game in practice at three different locations and all of them had no problem with trap loads for practice.
     
  4. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Spanky,

    Technically, its 24 grams of shot, which is actually a tiny bit less than 7/8 ounces.

    But like the others said, this is for practice, and you can shoot whatever you want.

    A few fyi's.

    You move after each shot, but don't move until after the person to your right has shot. In other words, take your shot, wait on station, when the person to your right has shot, then move adjacent to them (they'll be waiting for the person to their right to shoot.) When they move, you can take your spot on station.

    Your gun must be broke open when you move station to station, but you may have shells in the chamber. If you shoot an auto, you must be open and unloaded.

    When you move from station 5 around to station 1, the gun must be open and unloaded.

    If you strictly follow the rules, you have 10 seconds between the time the person before you shoots to the time you have to call for a target.

    It may seem like the targets come out more "promptly" than ATA, and that's because they do. I believe ATA (when you use CVR's) has a short delay, intended to simulate someone pushing a button when you call for the bird. Olympic has no delay.

    Good luck. Its way fun. Its like 27 yard wobble trap, on crack.

    As John Wooden once said, "be quick, but don't hurry."
     
  5. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Also.... Don't close your gun till it's your time to shoot...

    Where are you going to shoot bunker?

    Tb
     
  6. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    The above link is an excellent read for a newbie.

    Though 24 gm loads are required for international competition, some USA Shooting sanctioned matches do allow up to 1 & 1/8 oz loads. Sort of like sport fishing, though.....you can't set any records using the heavier loads.
     
  7. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    You don't see many heavy guys shooting bunker because you have to do five times the walking. Yeah, where are you going to do this?
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    In Kerrville.. I saw many ATA shooters try bunker with their doubles gun.. Most of the shooters shot it approperately for their ATA class..With 1 1/8oz..

    The shooters with better eyes.. shot better scores.. Just go out and have a GREAT time.. All Good.. Mike
     
  9. Voolfie

    Voolfie Member

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    Your 1.125 oz loads are fine - but use handicap loads if you have 'em. Don't TRY to do anything special. Even though the targets are wider and faster, the basics of target shooting still hold: just visually acquire it - and kill it. -JW
     
  10. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Do try to drop your hold point..if you shoot a high hold point..or you'll have alot of chassing to do.. I played with my MX10/20 gauge in Kerrville.. and the regular 7/8oz 1200 fps #8's did as well as anything.. when you do your part.. The speed is useful for the 55 meter shots..IF you miss your first shot.. i've seen a 28 gauge do well on first shots too.. Just the 2nd shot.. all long distances is tough..
     
  11. virtualgreek

    virtualgreek TS Member

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    Dear Spanky,

    Enjoy your bunker rounds. Keep a relaxed attitude especially if there are other shooters practising with you during that round. You may feel intimidated if they shoot well, so try to enjoy your game rather than force yourself into getting a good score. Aside from the correct gun-fit, stance, ammo etc. etc. bunker shooting is a mental game. Once you get into it, your scores will start getting better, and then you will reach a level where the mental game will determine the winner of a registered shoot. Everyone can break a target. Everyone breaks the same targets over and over during practise. The nerves of steel, and inner balance is what determines the winner.

    Keep your mount low. A good reference point would be the mark on the bunker. Stretch your eyes about 5 yards further out and keep a soft focus. When you call the target, you will see the target flying at a great speed. All you will see is the streak and your mind will lock the direction of where it is heading at. Then turn your eyes (and only your eyes) toward the target, and literally see the whole target. This will happen at around 27-30 yards out. Once you actually see the target, attack it. More like snap shoot at it.
    Shooters tend to move when they see the streak of the target. They see it going out at such a great speed that they think that they cannot catch up with it. This results in jumping ahead of the target and shooting infront of it.

    Don't swing the gun like bird shooting. Move your trunk. This will keep your head locked on the stock. Additionally, when you mount the gun, "hug" it, and lock it in your shoulder. This will also "force" the mind to move your trunk rather than move your hands, hence keeping the head locked on the stock. Practise some gun mounts and body swings at home, so that you will get acquainted with the mount and move.

    Last but not least, although ISSF rules state 7/8 oz loads, I think you will be fine shooting 1 oz. Anything above that will cause much more recoil resulting in a failure to re-acquire the target and fire the second shot when needed.

    Hope you enjoy the game!
    My 2 cents
    VirtualGreek
     
  12. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    Guys thanks for the response, sorry for the bit of a delay in doing so. I'll take and use all of the advise. Sort of looking forward to the chance of shooting it. I plan on shooting it up at Ontelaunee R&G Club in New Tripoli, PA. I've been wanting to shoot some standard trap up there and I have my mind made up to find the club and shoot. One of the guys I shoot with told me that they just started their bunker shooting season. I'll try to make a good contact with someone there before heading up. You know how sometimes when you try something new it can turn into a nightmare, I try to avoid that if possible these days.

    I'll take up my Citori Trap and Citori Sporting o/u's up and good selection of tubes along with 16yd. and Handicap shells. All I can do is just give it hell and see how I make out. The same is how it went down for me at shooting skeet. Firtst time out what a humbeling experience I'll never forget. First time at it were all skeet doubles. After being embarassed like that I swore I'd never shoot that bad again. I shoot it on occasion and love it. Learn more and more everytime out. I even try my hands at sporting every chance I get. Finding all the spare time to shoot it all is the kick in the a$$. Hope to live long enough to retire to get it all in.
     
  13. mikepacific60

    mikepacific60 Member

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    Dear Spank

    Here is my two bobs worth….Mate, if you are going to the trouble to have a go at ISSF Trap (AKA Trench or Bunker) buy a few boxes of good quality 24gram 7 ½ cartridges (doing around 1,350 FPS - there is no speed limit on ISSF Trap cartridges - just shot weight and size). Any left over cartridges can simply be used for domestic Trap (24gram cartridges break normal trap targets just fine).

    Sure you can use whatever you like for practice, but why not play the game how it was meant to be played?

    Just MYHO.

    Cheers from Australia,

    Mike
     
  14. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    VirturalGreek has given the BEST advise anyone could.. as well as the 2 post under him.. Bunker is a GREAT game.. Scores will come in time..but.. as in any game.. it takes practice.. Watch the top dogs.. look at their feet position.. their hold points.. their gun mount.. their swing.. AND.. don't try to guess what target you're going to get..Be prepaired for all of them..

    A big help to me.. being a one eyed shooter was to drop my hold point so I could get a quicker look at the target.. Try to shoot a 8 pound gun.. as the 9.5 pound trapguns are slow to the target..

    All Good.. Mike
     
  15. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    It is not within the rules to walk around with shells in the gun and a shooter can be disqualified for doing it. Bunker shooters are notorious for walking station to station w/ shells in the gun but you won't see that at international competitions and it is a way bad habit to develop no matter what.

    the rules are quite clear

    9.2.2 SHOTGUN SAFETY
    9.2.2.1 Carrying Guns
    9.2.2.1.1 To ensure safety, all shotguns even when empty must be
    handled with maximum care at all times:

    9.2.2.1.2 conventional double barrel guns must be carried empty with the
    breech visibly open;

    9.2.2.1.3 semi-automatic guns must be carried empty with the breech
    bolt visibly open and the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, up
    to the sky or down towards the ground only.
    9.2.2.3 Loading
    9.2.2.3.1 All shotguns must be kept unloaded except on the shooting
    Station and only then after the command or signal “START”
    has been given.

    9.2.2.3.2 Cartridges must not be placed in any part of the gun until the
    shooter is standing on the shooting Station, facing the traps
    with the gun pointed towards the target flight area, and after the
    Referee has given permission.
    9.2.2.4 Gun Handling
    9.2.2.4.1 The shooter must not turn from the shooting Station before his
    gun is empty and open. When shooting is interrupted, the gun
    must be opened and be made empty.
    9.2.2.4.2 After the last shot and before placing the gun in a rack, armory
    etc. the shooter must ascertain and the Referee must verify
    before leaving the shooting Station, that there are no cartridges
    or cartridge cases in the chamber and/or magazine. If the
    verification does not take place, the shooter may be
    disqualified.
    9.2.2.4.3 The handling of closed guns is prohibited when operating
    personnel are forward of the firing line.
     
  16. pufftarget

    pufftarget Active Member

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    I'll toss in my two cents ( probably what most consider it is worth). Start with your feet about 45 to the station with the front toe approximately down range to allow equal movement right and left. Flex both knees slightly, forward at the waist and about 60/40 weight distribution front to back.
    The move to the target will be from the ankles up with everything from the waist up locked so as to maintain position on the gun. With the gun mounted move the muzzle down onto the mark at the lip of the bunker. Center your vision 12-18 inches above the mark. Soft focusing about that center you should see 1/2 way to the adjacent marks and an equal distance above that center. This is a starting point. Most importantly the target should not get out of your perifery before you can determine it's flight path. Here is where I'll depart from some (I'll blame it on my vision), I leave with the streak driving the front shoulder to the target. I believe it makes the move less of a snap to the target as described prior and allows a smoother move and a greater chance to acquire a lock on the target. As a consequence I am never seemingly aware of the gun; it fits, follows my eyes, so when I lock on the target I am ready to pull the trigger and do. I believe in he who hesitates is lost; if you try to make it better you will slow down and shoot behind. Where the gun shoots percentage wise is less important than that it shoots where you look. I personally l like to see rib and get the gun out of the way and shoot off the muzzle.

    The targets may seem impossibly fast to start but trust yourself and they will slow dramatically; you have plenty of time but no time to waste. Above all enjoy yourself and do your best and come back again. At Ontolonee down at the bunkerask for a gentleman named John Wolfington. Tell him Chuck Dietl said he would make you welcome and help you.

    Try a 1 0z. load as it is fast with plenty of shot,and lower recoil for the second shot.

    Chuck
     
  17. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    semperfi909

    You are misinterpreting the rule. The 9.2 Section pertains to guns prior to the Start of an event. You may move from station to station with a loaded and open gun however the gun must be unloaded when you walk from Station 5 back to station 1.

    See T.9.6.3.2

    • all guns must be carried open when moving between Stations 1 and 5, and must be carried open and unloaded when moving from Station 5 to Station 1 (6)

    The inference is that you may walk from station to station with a loaded but open gun. Its done all the time because its allowed under the rules to speed up the game.

    TB
     
  18. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    9.2.2.4.1 The shooter must not turn from the shooting Station before his gun is empty and open.

    Seems pretty clear to me.

    As far as speeding up the game, open empty guns would not add a microsecond to the conduct of the shoot.
     
  19. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    I have been shooting bunker for nearly 30 years and have shot with a number of current and former members of the US and Canadian teams and have never seen such a rule enforced. Again I believe your are misinterpreting the rule.

    Tom
     
  20. clayscoach

    clayscoach Member

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    Semperfi909 - Which edition (year)of the ISSF rule book are you getting your information from? In the 2009 (current) edition, there is no rule 9.2.2.4.1! In the general rules section on page 351,it goes from 9.2.2.1 to 9.2.3! In the Trap section on page 360, under Method section T.9.6.3.2 - All guns must be carried open when moving between stations 1 and 5 and must be open and unloaded when moving from station 5 to station 1(6).

    It is common practice on the International Trap field to have a loaded, and, open gun when moving from stations 1 to 5. I have coached, and acted as an official all over the world and USA since 1985 until 2011. Jon Ogilvie
     
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