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Followup to "academic forum"

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by pyrdek, Feb 25, 2013.

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  1. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    There is a forum coming up Wednesday at Edinboro University in northwestern PA. It is being held by five Professors.

    I anticipate attending but I would like facts with verifiable sources to cite to reference just how many of these "mass shootings" took place and how many victims, what type of firearms (or explosives in the case of the Michigan elementary school killings many years ago), what the average time for the police response was, how the killing spree was stopped and by whom police, private citizen or hired armed security force. What type of drugs, both legal and illegal, prescription or otherwise may have been used by the shooter(s). And any other information that could be useful to have an accurate and truthful discussion and not a propaganda or railroad event to push additional gun control legislation. Please include referenced sources for the info provided.

    Thank you


    From the news release:

    The phenomenon of mass shootings in schools and other public settings will be examined by five Edinboro University professors during an academic forum on Wednesday, Feb. 27.

    The free event is open to the public and will begin at 4 p.m. in Compton Hall, Room 107.

    The forum will explore the current state of knowledge about mass shootings rather than focus on issues of public policy or security measures.
     
  2. broadway john

    broadway john Well-Known Member

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    "Academic Forum" simply means the 5 professors will engage in "academic freedom". In other words they lie, and see no need to cite any facts. Their opinions are the facts they will present, not any hardcore truths.
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Hmm...any communications/journalism professors in the mix?
     
  4. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    I attended the "Academic Forum" mentioned earlier. I was quite pleasantly surprised by what took place. I must admit I was anticipating a "all guns are evil. If we ban all the guns the problem will go away." type presentation. That was almost entirely NOT the case!

    The first speaker, a woman sociologist, took pains to point out the extreme rarity of such shootings as happened at Newtown. She had the numbers of incidents versus the number of schools and the number of victims. She emphasized her point that these incidents are extremely rare, even accounting for the number of victims, when compared to the school age population. She also pointed out the publicity given such events could very easily be an influence for other potential shooters to try to do something even more spectacular to gain their national and international "fame".

    There were a number of other points also raised by the other members of the panel about the shooters and some of the reasons that might be involved. These included being cast as a social misfit and being shunned by others in the school, victim of bullying, social network attacks and so forth. I will touch on some of other these.

    Perhaps the most surprising things were one of the professors who happened to be teaching law and criminal justice and whose past employment included a lengthy stint as a parole officer, who dealt with the more violent felons, came out with a very strong statement that gun control and confiscation would not deter the determined criminal, would handicap law abiding people and would be basically ineffective at best and possibly even worsening the solution. He pointed out one result of a survey he did while a parole officer and working in the prison system. In it he asked these offenders if a mandatory extra jail sentence was a consideration. The universal answer was No. He also asked why they were carrying a gun. The most common answer was for protection from other criminals. Also, they felt that they would have little trouble obtaining a firearm if they wanted one while out of prison. I found out later that his wife had been and is now again a parole officer in New York.

    Another point brought up was the "violent video games" concerns. Here I detected a slight divergence in the near uniformity of the speakers on other points. There were some who felt that these games did not have a causative effect on the shooters. They pointed out that the number of game players is quite large while the number of actual shooters is extremely limited. There simply is not a large enough database to say the general affect was to promote violence. Others speakers did not share this view. My summary of the views would say, there might have been an effect on those who were already so inclined by being influenced by other preceding events. Here I asked a question about this potential affect.

    I pointed out that law enforcement have still targets used in a shoot-no shoot training that are used to remove the hesitation caused by someone not looking like a bad guy. Recently others have posted articles about one particular series of these targets. I asked if these targets could be used to remove the, possibly fatal, delay in reaction by mature adults law enforcement, how much more of an affect could these first person shooter games have on adolescent minds since instead of just being a small hole in a piece of paper, these games have the video of the muzzle flash, the sound of the gun firing, the resulting blood being splattered all over and the explosions of the victims bodies. Here one of the professors on the panel, and the only one who expressed any sort of gun control attitude and it was a very mild attitude at that relating primarily to storing firearms where they were not obtainable by potential offenders, pointed out that the military had adopted using human shaped targets because of the inability of trainees to willingly try to kill enemies due to various emotional and mental inhibitions. Thus the adoption of human shaped targets to overcome these inhibitions. I pointed out that that seemed to reinforce my point.

    The topic of mental illness was also brought up. This was an area primarily covered by two of the panelists. Again it was pointed out that there is no known way to create a profile of a potential mass murderer. There are to few such killers and the history, mental conditions and treatments of these few were quite similar to other non-violent people suffering the same illnesses. Substance abuse, be it alcohol and/or drugs was a much greater influence on violence by reducing the inhibitions. Only a very small minority of mental illness victims show violence during the course of their disease. I also brought up that there were some indications of correlation between the use of physco-active medications on the part of people who did go to violent extremes or irrational dangerous behavior. It was pointed out that there are potentially millions of such users and the number of those users who are involved in mass killing event are so small that it is impossible to say that it is a primary cause. It could very well be one of a number of things that "go wrong" in an individual going on a mass killing spree but there is no way to prove a direct and sole cause from the use of these legal medications. I would like to thank the person who gave me the lead to get the information which was passed on regarding the use of physco-active drugs. One of the panelists e-mailed me later thanking me for providing the leads to additional info about this concern.

    The end result of these discussions is that the best attempts at prevention are observant people who notice and report signs of an individual who they feel may be potential aggressor. It is impossible to know how many incidents did not occur because the potential offender's behaviors and actions triggered concerns and interdiction by either law enforcement and/or mental health entities. Again however such interdiction is not any absolute guaranty of success.

    There was also a small discussion on the use of armed person, either teachers, other school employees, or hired officers. The one lady on the panel surprised me when she said that although she is a NRA match handgun competitor and marksman rated she did not feel that armed teachers were the way to go. The stress of the situation, the lack of training based on the unique school enviororment and the possible police misinterpretation of the situation all lead her to believe that armed officers with appropriate training would be preferred. I did have a short friendly discussion with her about her ideas following the meeting.

    Overall II would rate this forum as one that was well worth attending and informative to all who attended.

    Just as a side note, one television station headlined their story as if the primary or maybe even entire discussion was about guns and killings in school when in the actual discussion the mention of firearms was only a small and not even close telling part of the forum.
     
  5. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    pyrdek.........very good read, thanks for taking the time to attend the meeting and also for the report.

    Bill
     
  6. broadway john

    broadway john Well-Known Member

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    Followup to

    I stand corrected, it appears the 5 Professors actually spent some time on research and did not espouse the typical left wing bias usually found among academics. It is refreshing to hear about educators who do not suffer from anal-cranial insertion.
     
  7. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Followup to

    Pyrdek thanks for posting the meeting minute, I wish there was a way to get the pols to listen to them, but they are on a total control agenda, we can never give an inch
     
  8. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Followup to

    Thanks for attending and for the follow up pyrdek. Very interesting.
     
  9. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Followup to

    good job Pyrdek. It's refreshing to actually get a 1st hand account of one of these forums instead of the CNN spin version.
     
  10. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Followup to

    Thank you Pyrdek, for doing the research that so few seem to do before espousing an opinion. An example would be broadway john who wants to lump all educaters into the left wing. I am a retired educater of 40 years who is a conservative and former Republican candidate for offfice, But, John won't want to acknowledge that. Thanks again, Martinpicker
     
  11. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    Followup to

    That's good for a couple of ATTA BOYS, Joe. Good Job! If a few more people paid attention to these professionals things could possibly change.

    Big Jack
     
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