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Flinching

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by widomaker, Oct 24, 2008.

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  1. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    I have heard a lot about flinching and have sort of a rough idea of what it is. My question would be will every shooter develop a flinch ? I have asked on the forum about release triggers because its an interesting concept as I know a shooter that is in the same class as me. We shoot against each other quite a bit as he is from this area he shoots almost the same exact gun as me and has been shooting just about the same length of time as me but he tells me he has developed a flinch and shoots release triggers in his Browning. This was my second year of shooting and I don't flinch at least I don't think I do anyway. Is this something I have to look forward to or do shooters shoot their entire lives without developing a flinch.
     
  2. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    widomaker- Everyone is different. I've been shooting for 30+ years and have developed a flinch only in the last 2 years or so. Some get it, some do not. I'll be going to a release (double release) in my XT combo this winter. A funny aspect about my flinch is that I have not flinched (yet) when I shoot sporting clays. Maybe my attention span is getting shorter. I hope this trend does not continue to other aspects of my life. Really LOL!

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  3. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    If you want to see shooters flinch watch them when a shell doesn't go off. I shoot with shooters that prefer light guns with heavy loads. They all flinch. I have seen it with everyone of them when a shell failed to go off for one reason or another. I favor heavier guns with light loads, my favorite practice gun is an 11-87 20 gauge that weighs a little over 7 pounds. With light loads a real pleasure to shoot. I don't flinch when a shell doesn't go off.
     
  4. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    I think I have seen shooters flinch as I hear the call and wait and wait and then hear the gun go off. I sort of know approximately the timing of when I should hear the gun go off. My question is will every shooter develop a flinch and can you develop one in 2 years of shooting. Also I find it very interesting that there are different types of flinches. Trap shooting has a lot of little nuances that peak my curiosity for sure.
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    widomaker answer No not EVERY shooter will develop a flinch. You can develop one in two weeks or less.

    The problem with these answers is that 50 people will answer the questions 50 different ways there are no cut and dried answers to to your questions.

    What you shouldn't do is worry about it if it happens you will know and you already know what the cure is or at least the excepted cure. If you concern yourself with everything that can go wrong. You might as well quit right now. Don't dwell on problems you do not have just go out and try to learn the proper basics and have fun.

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Bob:

    I'm not dwelling on anything I'm curious about the what it is what causes it what it does and why. I have no problems at the moment except for the fact its getting cold here and not as many opportunities to go out and shoot, and want to hear what the experienced shooters think about it as I hear a lot about it from the shoots I attend. I attend most of the bigger shoots here in NY see lots of release triggers and lots of release trigger shooters. I have fun every time I shoot. I'm also not worried about it happening to me if it does so be it. I think I have the basics down now. Step up on the station, wait for your turn, throw the scatter gun up, yell pull, shoot the orange flying saucer when it comes out. Do I need to know more than that ? I'm a curious person by nature and ask lots of questions. If I get 50 different answers by 50 different perspectives thats great thats what science is all about.

    And thanks for yours.

    Martin
     
  7. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    Martin:

    After I put on a display of "missing by flinch" last evening at league after no flinches all summer I am convinced that my flinch problem is one of concentration on the bird. When I don't get a real good visual lock on the bird or I call without the proper mental set I may very well flinch. My gun fit is very good & I shoot light 1 oz. loads so recoil is not a problem for me. It was the first cold evening of shooting & I let that cold weather creep into my mental process with two bad flinches being the result. I certainly agree that the flinch problem can be caused by different factors for each shooter. I always thought it was only related to recoil but that isn't always the case. Good luck to any shooter who struggles with the problem of flinching.
     
  8. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Until it happens you should not concern your self. There are some things that can be done to help prevent developing a flinch but it's mostly shooting properly which prevents flinching.

    Once a flinch has developed there are ways of correcting it. One method or cure is a release trigger. other ways include visual techniques, Dry firing, and Relaxation.

    Joe
     
  9. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    been shooting for forty years and have never seen anyone with a release trigger, just luckey i guess.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Rifle and pistol target shooters have guns with very good triggers or guns with adjustable triggers. Flinching is rare. Shotgun target shooters for the most part have triggers that not adjustable for creep, overtravel and weight of pull. Compared to rifle and pistol target gun triggers the shotgun triggers are terrible. Flinching among shotgunners is common place. Draw your own conclusions. HMB
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    A creepy trigger,worn pins not allowing a full engagement of the sears is bad news. Excessive noise or not seeing the target with eye intensity all will help you flinch. Sometimes a bad move upsets the "look" between the eyes and target relationship needed to break consistent scores in my view. All of this is compounded with an ill fitted stock. Probably a few of the reasons some shooters can shoot like a house afire one day and couldn't hit a bull in the * the next. Ask me how I know? :) Hap
     
  12. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    I wasn't going to mention it here but since Hap opened the door.


    Whenever I work with shooters that are flinching or have an eye dominance problem the first thing i do is to fit their guns to them. Often a proper fitting and adjusting the impact correctly for the individual shooters style can eliminate a flinch with no further work on their shooting game.
    Joe goldberg
     
  13. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Very interesting indeed. Trigger creep eye dominance crappy shotgun triggers, anexity. Not seeing the target correctly. There is whole lot to breaking that 200 and getting to the back fence. Makes me admire how the big dogs do it time after time over the years. I knew that there would be alot of info on this stuff.

    Thanks for the info
     
  14. Release Trigger

    Release Trigger Member

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    Widowmaker,

    Do not concern yourself about a Release until you know you need it, and believe me you will know.

    I shot every weekend for 15 years without problem then at the 98 Grand you guessed it could not pull the trigger 5-6 times in every 100 and not only that would walk forward approx 1/2 yard trying to pull the damn trigger.

    I spent 1000's of dollars on different guns, shells, mind games you name it I tried it until at the 99 Grand had a Release installed and never looked back, took to it like a duck to water had never run a hundred before the Release and have done on no less than 17 times since also 1 x 200.

    I have 4 trap guns with Release/pull and a Beretta 391 with Release (double) I have no trouble going from Release/pull to Release/Release but do need a couple of targets to go back to Release/pull in doubles.

    JB.

    Interestingly I have the same reaction as you no flinch with Sporting, Skeet as long as I shoot gun down the minute I shoulder my gun before calling pull within 2 targets I'am back to the dreaded Flinch.

    Call me weird/odd I do not care all I know is I was at the stage of giving the sport away but going to a Release has kept me enjoying my favorite passtime with all my buddies, you do what you have to to get by.

    You will never be able to call me Big Leo but at least I can enjoy trying.
    (No offence Leo)

    Yours in sport,
    "Release Trigger"
    aka.Gary Kennerson, Downunder.
     
  15. LHSGummer

    LHSGummer TS Member

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    It has bin said that flinching. Is caused when the conscious and subconscious collide.That is when you shoot to the point where one is not thinking throught
    every part of his shooting routine.You might not be holding your head on the stock the same, or not ready for target when call for it.Many peaple have had to go back and redo the old gunmont routine with holding the gun firmer in the hand that pulls the trigger or hold your gun titer to your shoulder.Make sure
    you are ready when you call for a bird . Don,t get all tensed up. look for the target infront of the house around where the pole to set targets wought be
    and remember the only person that you have to beat is you self.Make sure you are haveing fun.Keep stress out of you shooting program.Many shooter that went
    to Release Triggers have got a flinch.
     
  16. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Let me stress this again I am not concerned with a release trigger or flinching for myself.

    I have only been shooting 2 years started in 07. Never saw a Trap target Trap gun or owned a shot gun before that. I like shooting, and when I go to the shoots I listen and see and hear all kinds of cool stuff.

    Flinching is one in particular release triggers are another forcing cones light loads heavy loads trigger creep POI Pattern boards sandbagging Lewis money added money. 4 classes 5 classes 6 classes, pull release triggers cross eye domination light pipes hiviz 1oz loads 1 1/8 oz loads 1150fps. 1200fps. 1350fps. hold points high gun low gun 2 hole targets 3 hole targets AA points, Class trophies, Vet trophies Sr. Vet trophies HOA HAA.

    I can't even get into the reloading thing as I haven't picked up all the shot off the floor of my garage yet. We can ice skate in there if I spill one more bag.

    When I'm standing there at the North East Grand or Eastern Zone shoot I just have the feeling its not the time to ask all the questions. Everyone seems to be getting ready to shoot at those gigs.

    Everyone on here seems pretty well versed on this stuff so I figured now is the time to ask as its the off season. And this way I know what the hell they are talking about once in a while when I'm sitting on the bench with all the old salts.

    Thanks again I'll keep reading and listening
     
  17. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I don't know what causes a flinch. I used to think that it was losing sight of the target. Evidently though, I haven't lost sight of the target since I got the relaese trigger. I didn't know they had such hidden optical qualities.

    I have always shot 3 dram loads. Evidently release triggers have hidden recoil absortion qualities as well.

    I didn't change my gun fit after installing the release. Evidently release triggers magically make you gun fit better too.

    The release trigger evidently immediately made me less tense and more mentally tough. It also instantly corrected my hold points and target recognition and never let me mount the gun wrong again.

    Had I known that release triggers had so many magical properties, I would have got one sooner.
     
  18. Release Trigger

    Release Trigger Member

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    Widowmaker,

    Stick with the three L's, Look - Listen - Learn and you cannot go wrong.

    Listen to all the older guy's that have been in the game for the long haul, you may not always learn a lot but it is certainly entertaining listening to the stories.

    Good luck in your trapshooting endeavours.


    "Release Trigger"
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There are many manifestations of a flinch. Some can't pull the trigger, others will jerk the left hand, some jerk their head off the stock and I jerk much of my upper body. A flinch has nothing to do with anxiety or conscious vs sub-conscious. It is a simple learned reflex that involves the brain stem.

    The most common cause of a flinch is a poor fitting gun. Not seeing the target well is another frequent cause. There are many more less frequent causes.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    JBrooks:

    Now thats what I was looking for thats funny stuff. Magical powers eh. I like it.....
     
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