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flinching-young shooter- HELP!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by acss, Mar 3, 2012.

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  1. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    i know we have hashed this over many times-"flinching"-- but i always thot it was an older shooters problem-- but today, i had a 3rd year youth shooter (16yrs old),flinch several times-- we were shooting into the wind so the rocks were a lil high and or eratic-- was that the reason?

    here is my question--
    i know his mother will ask me to look at the gun trouble- and i know its not the gun-- how do i not make a big deal out of it and or scare the kid or her?
    the young man had a look on his face like "what just happened"!!!

    wally riebesell--660-744-4115 cst
     
  2. slayer

    slayer Well-Known Member

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    Tell the young man to start with a little [little!] pressure on the trigger before he calls for the bird. This advice helped me work out a minor flinch problem, and I like to pass it on. Bill
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I recommend the exact opposite of the above, and I'll pass it along as well. There is absolutely no reason to take up slack on a shotgun trigger like you do before making a rifle/pistol shot. Have him try keeping his finger completely OFF the trigger when calling pull.


    My pull flinch resulted from taking up the slack on the trigger before calling pull. Sooner or later, the gun will go off too soon during the swing = a miss behind the target - which your brain then tries to correct on future shots by telling the finger to "hold on - don't fire yet," which can develop into a flinch. Once I started keeping my finger off the trigger, and adopting a trigger slap technique (which many good shotgun instructors recommend anyway), my flinch was cured.



    This of course assumes he isn't having a recoil flinch. If the gun is punishing him, that must be dealt with if he's ever to shoot well.
     
  4. Mark-in-Maine

    Mark-in-Maine Member

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    If the birds were flying erratically and jumping on the wind, I'll bet the young shooter
    momentarily lost sight of the bird and pushed the gun away in an effort to relocate it.
    Not really a flinch. Been there. Done that.

    Just my 2ยข
     
  5. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    No it might very well be the gun

    It probably doesnt fit and his brain is telling him not to shoot.

    Or it probably doesnt fit and he is getting whacked.

    Rethink your stance that "it isnt the gun"

    I bet it is the gun

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  6. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    First, what kind of gun and loads are being used? Second, Terry Jordan wall chart, third stand beside him and have him hand you the gun to load for him each shot, then give him an unloaded gun sometimes. That is a jgood start. Not enough information to make an informed answer but you should be able to eleminate some problems there. Is he having to cover up the bird to shoot the target and break it? Losing sight of the target can cause you to jerk too. Don't need heavy loads for singles so if you add that to a young shooter, you are asking for recoil problems. Good luck to the both of you. John
     
  7. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    he was standing next to me on the last one i noticed-- his finger never moved but was tight!!! he shook so hard he almost dropped the gun---i am going to ask to shoot the gun with his shells and see if it beats me or misfires--
     
  8. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    What beats him may not bother you. Somebody that knows something about gunfit should take a look at him and where his gun patterns. John
     
  9. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    Buzz-gun is on track, stay off the trigger and hook or slap it when making the shot, this method automatically enhances a smooth follow through preventing a stopped gun.

    Many flinches are caused by poor target acquisition which is a result of not putting the eyes out to a more global view. Many people suffer by keeping their view in a quadrant where they normally see a clear target, this works great until the targets are pushed around and out of their predetermind viwing area. Top shooters learned to expect the unexpected and have trained themselves to look and see the targets, all of them regardless where they are.

    If you think the flinch is caused by recoil or head lifting then ask him what he is feeling, is the gun hurting him. Watch him closely when he shoots, you will be able to tell if the guns a poor fit.

    Surfer
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    First check his trigger pull-it may be too heavy or erratic. If that's not a problem just encourage him to ignore it-Leo is good with that. If it persists you might simply have an early flincher on your hands. They are quite rare but they appear on a few occasions. A release is the last alternative but sometimes the only one left.

    Oh, and don't forget gun fit-especially if his eye is too far below the rib. An eye dominance check is also recommended!!
     
  11. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

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    Almost all flinches are vision related.

    With respect to gun fit causing the problem --- has he had growth spurtately?

    The wind. Was he holding his gun with extra tension? A death-grip on the foreand is the wrong way to go -- better would be to maybe a little tighter on the pistol grip and a lot less on the forend.

    How about an eye-exam? Is it possible he's had a change in his vision?

    I'd also think about having him take a little time off and not obsess about it.
     
  12. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I agree with DB Bill. Most of my flinches are optical.

    On windy days, especially with the wind in my face, I would flinch on a quickly rising target. In similar fashion, I would flinch on angle targets that rose or dropped when encountering a crossing head wind. The problems became even worse when it would be calm and then the wind would suddenly gust.

    When you loose sight of the bird, I think that many shooters raise their head, even if it is ever so slight. The same is true if the shooter gets surprised by a hard angle. The gun has to fit and you have to keep "wood to wood". You have to "stay in the gun."

    I have greatly reduced my flinching by seeing the the target better before I shoot. I used to try and shoot lightening fast on windy days but now I wait for a good "eye lock" on the target.

    When I was a teenager and in my 20's, I used to play a lot of "back yard" hardball (neighborhood teams) and organized softball. I remember several home runs and good hits where I picked up the ball about halfway to the plate and just instinctively knew where to swing. I can still see some of those balls rotating in the air.

    What has helped me the most is seeing the target well before I shoot. See the bird, shoot the bird.

    Ed Ward
     
  13. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    do dark sunglasses contribute to the problem?
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Yes, what kind of gun is he shooting? HMB
     
  15. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    DB Bill has another excellent suggestion. Do not hold the fore end with a death grip and perhaps increase the hold on the pistol grip. The great Rudy Etchen won all kind of shoots with his 870. He even had a special pistol grip made for it.

    I try and press the comb into my cheek with the pistol grip and this helps me.

    Ed Ward
     
  16. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    older bt99
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    His flinching could be his anticipating the guns recoil. Have him try some light 1 oz loads and see if the problem goes away. HMB
     
  18. windyflat

    windyflat Member

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    I use a dark bronze polarized in any kind of sun and all winter long with no trouble. IMO my problem with that sort of flinch was not looking directly at the target.
     
  19. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    If its an older BT and hasn't been fitted to him, recoil could very well be the problem. What kind of loads is he feeding it?

    Generally three things cause the problem.

    1. Vision as others have stated is a prime culprut. But what you as a coach need to resolve if this is the case is what the cause is. It could be where his eyes are prior to calling. Even though he has shot for three years is he cross dominant? Is he creating blindpots by barrel placement, etc. Also under conditions spoke of above, he may not have been focusing on the target through the move to it and execution of shot.

    2. Recoil. Gun doesn't fit and or shooting to much shell.

    3. Poor trigger. If I recall old BT's were somewhat trigger sensitive in that they needed periodic cleaning. It may actually have a broken part or has increased/decreased in poundage. He as others have stated maybe actually squeezing the trigger and the suprise effect of any of these can definetly lead
    to uncertainty.

    One final thing to keep inmind. He is young and unless this is a reoccuring sympton, his mind may have just not been in it. You know, girls, games and buddies, etc.
     
  20. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

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    ...I not an old hand at this. But I have a BT-99 that the trigger pull does some strange things. Sometimes I'll pull the trigger and it won't fire unless I pull again and HARDER. That would look like a flinch because it happens fast..but it's not. Of course the shot is usually missed when that happens and causes me to slap or really pull erratically the next time...

    It's hard to figure out too...because it only happens once in a while. Especially hard for a kid to figure out. I'm in the process of fixing that problem as we speak on my gun.

    I would suggest loaning him another gun and see what happens. Naturally if the issue disappears..have the BT-99 looked at....maybe it had a release trigger in the past or something and has some minor iissue that causes it to pull erratically. In determining what was wrong with my BT-99 I discovered that there are several others who had similar issues. Not many but some...and always something simple to have repaired.

    Maybe that is all it is...
    Best regards...Stan
     
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