1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Flinching on command

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by DTrykow, Jul 3, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,542
    I've been trying to break some trap shooting bad habits, moving the gun before seeing the bird, etc. I've also been reinforcing other things like smooth swing, eye's on target, cheek on the stock, follow thru, etc. Well whenever I enter one of those thoughts into the equation, I flinch. I'm trying to correct and/or override some deep subconsious actions and it's tripping me up. Without fail this happens. Now I know the subconsious is very powerful but wow it's shutting me down. At this rate I'm just going to shoot and the hell with it. Dave T.
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Get a release trigger. You are supposed to be able to think those thoughts. It's how you eventually get better.
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,463
    Forget the release trigger and just go back to the basic methodical rhythmical form of shooting. Dont think about each step just do each step each and every time ... back to the basics.

    Load gun

    Close gun

    Mount gun

    Call for bird

    See bird

    PULL trigger

    Break bird

    Lower gun

    Repeat above 24 more times.

    There will be those who tell you to just jump and get a release trigger but the majority of them are ones who have taken the easy fix to there own problems and bought there way to a supposed better score instead of just working on the problems and correcting them. Basically they are not stronger enough to overpower and correct the little mental game gnome inside there head.

    Keep working on it and you will see improvements again but just remember back to the basics and methodical rhythmical shooting. Basically mind numbing mundane basic shooting and you should be able to overcome and correct your problems.

    Remember also that it may get worse before getting better but that can be expected since your trying to break your current pattern and rhythm. Good luck and you can do it.
     
  4. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,463
    Oh yeah ... I forgot ... your thinking to much. You should not have to think about smooth swing, eye's on target, cheek on the stock, follow threw or really anything that is basic like that, it should all just feel natural.

    Work on it ... you were doing fine before and most likely you were not thinking about all this blibberly blabbly stuff but instead just doing it.
     
  5. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,542
    Thank you Mr. Newbius: My thoughts exactly. I'll go your route than run to a release. Thanks again. Dave T.
     
  6. laura!

    laura! Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    438
    I'm amazed at the fear and derision a release trigger inspires in the uninitiated. Don't get a release because you're flinching, get one because they are better!
     
  7. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Dave,

    Flinching is a physiological reality just like your shoe size. Not using a release trigger makes about as much sense as trying to get your feet into the wrong size shoes.

    I suggest you review the thread by Rico46 started on the 28th of May.

    I should also note that Newbius, in his various incarnations, primary purpose on this site is just to jack people around and he is jacking you but good.

    If you want to shoot to your potential, get a release. If you want to be just another flinching putz on the line, don't. It's not like you won't have a lot of company.
     
  8. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    Dave, You should follow Newbuis's advice. Avoid the release trigger. And, continue to flinch and shoot like crap.
     
  9. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,685
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Dave.... I must agree with JBrooks. Going to a release trigger was the best thing I ever did. Your flinch will NOT go away, I guarantee you. It will continue to come and go until you finally have to fight it all the time. It already is a major distraction to your shooting as you have come on here to try to get some help. It is obviously on your mind every time you go to the line. While practicing the basics is important to your shooting, so is being smooth, and IN CONTROL of each shot, and you currently are not. To accomplish the goal you have set for yourself, try this. Borrow a release trigger and put it in your gun if you can. If not, borrow a gun with a release in it. Go to the line, and shoot a practice round WITH NO SHELL IN THE CHAMBER. Call for a target and when it comes out, swing smoothly to the target and release the trigger on a snap cap or empty hull. You will immediately see what you are doing with each shot. If you do this for 2 rounds of trap, you will notice you are much smoother to the target and releasing the trigger is a very natural thing to do. You will no longer be thinking, or worrying about your flinch as it will be non-existant. I have been where you are right now and tried everything I could to take care of the flinch, and none of them did any good until I tried what I just suggested to you. Contrary to a lot of the above posts, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going to a release trigger. Todays releases are very reliable and safe, when used properly, and are a great tool to help you become a better shooter if you suffer from the condition you described above. You have nothing to lose by trying it, and everything to gain....Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  10. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,542
    Trap2 etc. It's not that I'm afraid of the release. I know there safe and proven. I actually bought a release right here on TS.com. I'm just not sure that's the fix. Shooters flinch with a relaese too. I'm perplexed that suggesting to myself "to not move the gun before I see the bird" is causing such a glitch in the system.
    Thanks, Dave T.
     
  11. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,463
    Dave ... if your moving the gun before seeing the bird now wont you also move the gun before seeing the bird if you use a release trigger?

    Now just ignore answering that and just use the release trigger like everyone has told you to do and forget about going back to the basics and working on the problem.
     
  12. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,959
    There's nothing wrong with the release but it is a bandaid and not a cure for the underlying problem. If your shooting properly there's no flintch with a release or pull. E-mail me or call me and i may be ale to help you. I know what your dooing and can help.
    Joe goldberg
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Most shooters do not flinch with a release.

    Do what Dan said except even better have a friend actually shoot the targets. seeing the bird break about the time you release the trigger is a good thing.

    If you wnat to learn to hold a still gun, have some one hand pull for you and delay the pull on your call or pull without a call.

    OTH, often times when I don't get a target on my call I find I am moving the gun about the time I would expect to see the target. In that I doubt it is costing me targets, I don't worry about it anymore.
     
  14. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,959
    I didn't say anything about flinching with a release! What I said was that there is an underlying problem which creates a flinch. If the underlying problem is not cured than the release just allows you to get the shot off. It doesn't help you point the targets properly. A release can actually camouflage a lot of bad habits that still exist. Kind of; like steroids.
    Joe
     
  15. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    725
    Dave, I use to flinch approximately two times per 25 shots. It started out as flinch once in a while and then worsened over the last three years. I have lost significant opportunities to win local, state and national events because I flinched and missed targets. It was awful and very embarassing! I never knew when it would happen!

    I went to a release trigger approximately 3 weeks ago. I have shot 1400 rounds with the same gun, same shells, same vest and have not flinched even once. Not even a resemblance of a flinch! If you don't believe me ask my buddy Tom Hoppe. Tom has shot with me for over the last 7 years. He can hardly believe its me shooting. He said "your shooting like the Rick of old."

    My singles and handicap scores have jumped since making the change! I have not shot one event under my old averages since making the change. In fact, I recently shot a 96 in the caps and got a punch.

    Dave, I'm not saying a release is the answer for everyone. But, I'm telling you for me it has given me a renewed opportunity to be competitive once again. I thank guys like Ricky Goshgarian, Tom Hoppe, Luther Ward, Gary Jahn, Dick Gries, Hank Steffen and Big Don in pushing me to get a release trigger. I also thank Ricky G, Hank & Charlie for working with me when I got the release done.

    I also thank Rich Kaysa and Norm Husseman at Alamo Sporting Arms for putting in my release and giving me a renewed opportunity break targets. I wish you the best.

    Rick Brohmer
     
  16. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,863
    So Joe, enlighten us a bit.......or is it that your help is just for sale??
     
  17. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Rick,

    What kept you from going to a release sooner?
     
  18. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,260
    Dave'

    I can't pretend to know what the solutions to your shooting problem will be but I can tell you that every single person that I know of that has gone to a release trigger is pleased with the outcome and is enjoying trap shooting much more as a result. Sounds to me like you are just plain trying too hard and maybe if one of the problems went away then you could ease up a bit on yourself and deal with what ever else may be wrong.

    Professional instruction is also a good idea if you can swing it but try to get things smoothed out a bit before you go that route.
     
  19. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    725
    Mr. Brooks, simple denial! I used to tell fellow shooters the target startled me or the target was underneath the barrel and I didn't see it. But, deep down when you can't pull the trigger or you can't get off a shot until the target is two feet off the ground you know its a problem. It wasn't money! I'm fortunate to have that! Kay Ohye told me I need to seriously consider a release two years ago but I even ignored him.

    In April we shot the club championships and I was in a shoot off with a very reputable local shooter. We were going back and forth and I was holding my own. Finally, I flinched,shot and missed a target that was nearly on the ground. It was humiliating!

    Shortly after that I drove to the Central Grand in Michigan. I shot the Championship singles right next to Mike Thomas the eventual Singles Champion. He ran 200 while I finched no less than 7 to 8 times through the 200 hundred targets. I'm so glad, I was to his right and not shooting in front of him. My flinches may have been his demise in running his first 200. It was then, I decided to get it done. Sure glad I did!

    Rick
     
  20. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Thanks Rick,

    That is what I suspected. There is a huge contigent of ignorant/misguided shooters who have perpetuated a stigma againt release triggers. They do a disservice to our sport because they cause people to either struggle along trying at best ineffective, and at worst, plain goofball solutions or they just give up the sport.

    That is why you will always find me coming down hard on these people. If they want to remain ignorant and shoot poorly, so be it, but when they ruin other shooters enjoyment by perpetuating myths and old wives tales, I say to hell with them.

    I am glad it is working for you, but you will doubtlessly continue to kick yourself,(and rightly so :) ), for not switching sooner.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.