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Flat vs High

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by oofie810, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. oofie810

    oofie810 TS Member

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    What does it really mean when a gun shoots "flat"? Is it because of the combination of the stock height and rib? Or is it the barrel itself that shoots flat or high?

    The reason I ask is, I'm thinking of buying a sporting gun what would be used about 75% for trap and the other 25% on other games (5-stand and Skeet). Unfortunately, I can only buy a multi-purpose gun for now. So if I buy a "sporting" gun like a 686 Silver Pigeon 1 and add an adjustable comb, can I make it shoot flat or shoot high depending on the comb height?

    Thanks,
    Ron
     
  2. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is the way to go. Actually, the Sporting shooters who come to our club to shoot trap clean up because they are used to a greater number of different target presentations and know how to lead and follow through. Trap shooters who shoot really high shooting guns are actually trick shooters.

    IMO,set the gun up in the flat to 70/30 range for Sporting, 5-stand and Skeet. You will quickly learn the proper moves for ATA trap. BTW, a very large percentage of trap shooters shoot flat shooting guns.
     
  3. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Basically you are talking about the relationship of the POI (point of impact) and the POA (point of aim). If you have a flat shooting gun (50/50) the pellets will be 50% above the point of aim and 50% below. A higher shooting gun means that a greater percentage of the pellets will be above the point of aim.

    There are a number of ways to accomplish this, such as bending the barrel, raising the comb or a combination of lowering the front of the rib and raising the comb. Bill Malcolm
     
  4. flashmax

    flashmax Well-Known Member

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    The rear sight of a shotgun is your eye. If you raise your eye you also raise the point of impact --- if --- your look point for front sight purposes stays the same. You raise your comb you raise your eye and your point of impact, ceteris paribus, but quite often everything else is not equal. We tend to want out picture to be the same when we shoot targets so we have to train our eyes to look. We want the picture we see at the rear of the rib, over the receiver and down the rib to the beads to 'look' the same from shot to shot. So you will be making your brain accept a length of rib between the midbead and the front bead as right and proper. It will take a bit of training of your eye/brain but once you get your comb height right you will be able to shoot both sporting and trap with the same shotgun and some do it with their shotgun set up for trap. I am not a skeeter so that advice will have to come from someone else but I havs seen people shoot both disciplines with the same shotguns. Sometimes very well.

    Flat shooting pretty much just means that the center of the pattern is on the point of aim. It all follows from where the eye is. Getting your eye in the right place is in stock fit with the rib being a visual aid so your brain accepts the placement of your eye easier.
     
  5. oofie810

    oofie810 TS Member

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    Thanks everyone! I guess the only thing now is to wait for that right deal. Very helpful and informative.

    -Ron
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    zzt is right. All the sporting guys at our club shoot trap with their sporting gun. Add a couple shims and you are on your way!
     
  7. oofie810

    oofie810 TS Member

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    Setterman - you mean shims on the adjustable comb?
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Yep. For my it's (2-3) 1/16" shims, but I shoot high rib sporters.
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I found my 1187 was too flat shooting for trap, patterning 50/50. I went with an adjustable comb stock and set it for 60/40, which worked out much better for both trap and sporting clays. I had problems switching back and forth between the trap stock and a field stock, so I restocked all my field and sporting clays 1187s with monte carlo stocks. Now all my 1187s pattern the same as my trap gun.
     
  10. Hookedonshooting

    Hookedonshooting TS Member

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    Oofie, another option is to buy a Morgans Adjustable recoil pad. Has one screw that you can loosen to move it up or down. Down to flatten it out, up to increase poi %.
     
  11. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    An adjustable recoil pad doesn't change your POI unless you change where your cheek hits the comb. If you mount the comb to your cheek the same way, all that will change is where the recoil pad hits your shoulder. You need to change your eyeball in relation to the barrel, to change the POI. That is done through the cheek on the comb. Raise the comb, which raises the eyeball, raise the POI. The main advantage of a midbead to check for a consistent gun mount. Mark
     
  12. Hookedonshooting

    Hookedonshooting TS Member

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    Agree on some of your points Mark, not all though. The curved pad thats on it makes hard to mount it any other way. Unless you like the bottom point stickin in your bossom. Mine it mounted on a Model 12. Not a m/c stock, closer to a field stock. When i move it up 2 notches, theres .25" space between the 2 beads. Down 2 and it makes a figure 8. Now some folk dont likey seeing the space between the beads, im not one of them. Once i mount it and confirm the space, the mid bead is irrelevant. I have this setup on my Y model since its a backup gun. Shoot trap, 5 Stand, and skeet with it occasionaly. With the latter 2 requiring a flatter poi %. With the the it adjusted up the 2 slots, it shoots a little higher than 65/35.
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Newer guns and training seem to lean toward 60/40 for Skeet and Sporting, and is at the high end recommended for Bunker.

    My Luxus is 70/30, allows me to shoot it all with one gun, two Low Rib barrels.

    I will say I am used to high shooting guns.
     
  14. Hookedonshooting

    Hookedonshooting TS Member

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    Coach, I find it hard to shoot skeet with anything but a 50/50 gun. Tough on posts 3-5 to stay under the bird AND have to lead them like you do. But i have a 20g Cynergy Sporting Cays gun thats pretty effective, but again it shoots 50/50.
     
  15. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Hooked: when you move your Morgan pad, you are changing where your head hits the stock. With a parallel comb, that wouldn't happen.
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    All guns should have adjustable combs. The chance of it being a perfect fit are nill. Not only up/down, but R & L. Even my custom stocks have it. Add weight, lose weight, change your style a little, etc.

    Also makes selling the gun easier.
     
  17. Redcobra

    Redcobra Active Member

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    I setup my SP1 with an adjustable comb and mid bead and my GF shoots it for trap, 5-stand, and skeet with good results. She sees the "snowman" and shoots. I have to be careful or she beats me and I use 3 different Guerinis for the three games.
     
  18. Hookedonshooting

    Hookedonshooting TS Member

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    Euro, i agree. I do crawl into the stock. Maybe I should have stated with the Adj pad, it assists me in changing the poi due to how much or how hard i crawl into it. When set in the up position i dont want to crawl into hard because it defeats the porpose of trying to cant the barrel in the slightly up position for higher poi. Its a backup gun and its setup isnt ideal but the original thread was based on using one gun for several types of shooting. I do have a different gun for each type, and would suggest to the thread poster to do the same thing as well. But i am not in charge of his bank account.
     
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