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Flat tax ?

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by hrosik123, May 15, 2011.

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  1. hrosik123

    hrosik123 Member

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    I'm all for the flat tax idea. My question to you is can you see it taking effect. IMHO politicians from all parties would have no bargaining power with their contributors if a flat tax was instituted. What do you think. Good luck Chuck Hrosik
     
  2. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    It will never happen. Look at all the gov/IRS jobs that would be lost.
     
  3. hrosik123

    hrosik123 Member

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    You still need the IRS to collect and monitor the monies. I think it has more to do with campaign contributions. Good luck Chuck Hrosik
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It is a common sense solution. Therefore is has no chance. HMB
     
  5. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    There are a couple of reasons that politicians do not want a flat tax. The first 1 is the 1 that you mention. A nother is the amount of jobs that would be lost from tax preparation,,,,,, and finally is the reason that they would have to live within their means,,,, so when I wanted to spend more, a tax increase would be an increase on everyone.....
     
  6. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Yeah, plus that one minor detail all the flat-tax pea-brains always seem to overlook -- that it will be a massive tax break for all the people who currently pay the most tax, which means the deficit and national debt will skyrocket even further. And NO -- getting the people who make $15K/year to pay "their fair share" will not replace the give-back to Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc.

    It is, however, total BS that 45% of the public pays zero income tax.

    If you like the flat-tax mindset, then at least consider a consumption tax (e.g. a National Sales Tax). At least that would generate NEW revenues from people now spending under-the-table income, drug money, etc. I don't see bartering as offsetting this gain.

    Either way, Gates and Buffet will still have a party (not really -- Buffet supported Obama, so he's ASKING to have his money taken away).

    -Gary
     
  7. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    Gary,,,,,you may want to do some research on the amount of revenue that the proposals regarding the flat tax,,,,the problem with the consumption tax is that you would STILL have an income tax on the books,,,,do you think that congress would EVER reduce spending????

    BTW, you would have to legalize drugs in order to tax the sale of them,,,,,won't happen.....
     
  8. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Chuck:

    Your observation is spot on. The federal income tax code is a cluster f**k because while it raises 'necessary' revenue, the details were mostly designed to to reward political allies, punish political enemies, or are an attempt at social engineering. Changes in the code including suggested changes, are all opportunities to extort campaign contributions.

    GW22:

    You wrote, "It is... total BS that 45% of the public pays zero income tax." Restate your premise to read, '45% of U.S. households don't pay any income taxes' and the IRS would STILL disagree. Their published statistics say the number of non-paying households is closer to 50%.

    A flat tax will never see the light of day for several reasons. Any one of these reasons is sufficient to guarantee a flat tax will never happen.

    1. It would eliminate the threat of political extortion via the tax code thus eliminating the financial payoffs to office holders that such extortion provides.

    2. It would eliminate social engineering.

    3. Any change (up or down) would impact everyone. That eliminates the time tested divide and conquer political strategy. Politicians could no longer gain political advantage by screwing one group for the benefit of other groups.

    4. Any flat percentage rate that REPLACES CURRENT INCOME TAX REVENUE ON A DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR basis would in fact, result in a decrease for the highest income earners.

    The practical reality of the math works like this: high income earners would see a trivial percentage decrease in their tax rate. They would, however, continue to pay virtually ALL tax revenues collected.

    Those paying NOTHING now would pay a trivial amount of future tax revenues collected. They would however, see a dramatic PERCENTAGE increase. They would go from NOTHING to something. Actual dollars paid by them would still be close to NOTHING.

    By definition, the roughly 50% of the non-paying households would oppose the idea of paying SOMETHING even though the something wouldn't be much.

    sissy
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The Libertarian Party proposed a national sales tax to replace income taxes.

    The interesting part was the amount of national sales tax needed to replace income taxes.

    It's 45%.

    That's why a national sales tax in lieu of an income tax will never fly.

    The middle class might be able to make it work, considering how much they're paying in taxes and how few tax write-offs, tax credits and other programs they can tap into compared to the rich.

    The rich will never support it because many will be paying a lot more in taxes. Look how the luxury tax failed, and it was a modest sales tax. Expensive boat and yacht sales dried up overnight, and almost caused massive layoffs in the industry.

    The poor will never support it. They pay nothing or almost nothing now, and this would put a substantial increase on them.
     
  10. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    The present tax code is 6000+ pages. A lot of people would be out of a job if the country went to a flat tax. Get real..
     
  11. hrosik123

    hrosik123 Member

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    What do you mean "get real". For years I've been taxed at a percentage rate over 40%. Why should I loose money due to my willingness to work hard. Maybe some of the CPA's in college should choose another career path.
     
  12. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Bigdogtx:

    I never said we'd tax the SALE of drugs. I said we'd collect tax from people spending the drug money, and all other types of untaxed income. I'm not sure a consumption tax is feasible, but at least it's not obviously impractical and stupid like a flat income tax.

    -Gary
     
  13. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Just imagine how much taxes are avoided or transfered on to those that pay taxes by the NON PROFIT loopholes. We should ban all non profits.
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Non-profits pay plenty of taxes. Payroll taxes, property taxes, utility taxes, etc., etc., etc.
     
  15. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Like I said they transfer their tax burden on to others. We cannot run a country by passing the buck. I pay all those taxes and I still have to pay on my income. Most non profits are a scam.

    and, FWIW, employees pay their own payroll taxes, employers just make it look, like they do.
     
  16. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    So Gary, you want a consumption tax as well,,,,unless we eliminate the 16th amendment,,,,you will get this,,,,you really think this will happen,,,,now what is impractical and stupid,,,,

    If you think the wealthy will "spend" enough to offset the loss from the income taxes, you should really think this through....
     
  17. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    hrosik 123: We are much more likely to see a Value Added Tax than a flat tax. If Obammer gets a second term I suspect we'll get a 1-2% VAT. Some of the European countries have up to a 25% VAT. That's just about the only way to increase tax's anymore that is across the board, and everyone pays. I'm not suggesting I like the idea. I'm just forecasting what's to come....
     
  18. i_shoot

    i_shoot Member

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    google fairtax.org. I like the idea of a flatax.

    i_shoot
     
  19. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    Many if not most "non profits" diesperse more money to overhead and employees (salaries, perks and benefits) than to the causes they profess to support. I know if one non-profit employee whose employer pays for her to take the ferry to work each day. A couple of NYC stock brokers I know well take the train or the bus because the ferry is too expensive!

    Non-profit and tax exempt is a big racket - not always but often.
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"...and, FWIW, employees pay their own payroll taxes, employers just make it look, like they do. ....</i>

    Employers do no such thing. They did not create the tax code that determines how these taxes are set up. Congress and the states created the tax codes.

    Your responses are right out of the Democrastic Underground website. Stop drinking the DNC Kool-Aid.
     
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