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Fixed vs. Adjustable Ribs

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by WNCRob, Dec 6, 2008.

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  1. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    I would appreciate oinions and experiences of those who, like me, have recently changed from a lower fixed-rib gun to an adjustable high ribbed gun. My objective in making the change was to have a new gun that fostered a more "heads-up" attitude than I could achieve with my fixed rib gun, even though it had an adjustable comb and butt pad. With the erector set on the bbl, I find it quite distracting, and my scores reflect this problem. I suspect that this distraction is leading to some eye-dominance, and perhaps other issues. Further, I see little value in the "adjustment" factor for the rib, since I do not aim down the bbl. Perhaps I'll eventually get used to it, but the new gun certainly is a challenge. It will be interesting to see if the better, "heads up" attitude does, indeed, eventually contribute to better scores or whether it is more theory than actual fact. In many ways, I wish I had my old gun back! Sometimes, simpler is better imho.

    WNCRob
     
  2. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    In my opinion, shooting an extra high rib barrel is much like shooting an un-single barrel. I currently use a Beretta unsingle, but before that, had switched to a high rib on a standard barrel-primarily to get my head/neck into a more upright position. I found this to be very good for me, and so the switch to an unsingle was no problem. However, from what I have seen and read, there are many people who simply do not do well with un-single barrels, and the same undoubtedly applies to the high rib. Whether this is due to how the shooter perceives the target in relation the barrel-rib set up, or some other factor I do not know. But is is clearly a case where it is best to "try before you buy" before going to a high rib set up, or unsingle set up. I went this route first, adding a rib made of balsa and taped to my factory rib to see how it worked for me before actually making expensive changes. I have also done this for others who were thinking to making the change. Some liked it, for others a higher rib just made their problems worse.

    I hope you can work your way into being more comfortable with the higher rib set up. Many never do get used to it and go back to the original set up. The issues involved with a higher rib do not have anything to do with its adjustability of course. In my opinion, the ability to fine tune the POI using the adjustments in my high ribs is a bonus factor-particularly as it allows me to first set up my combo's double barrels POI using the comb to adjust, then change to the unsingle barrel and use the rib to tune the unsingle to where it want it without having to alter the comb settings. This makes it simple to change use both sets of barrels without further setting changes.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Rob- Never confuse the terms "head up" and "raising your head". I like to bring the gun to my face and never bring my face to the gun. A high rib helps a person with a long neck to accomplish this.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Rob,

    What Jim wrote above is very good.

    The primary advantage of unsingles is that they put the heel (top) of the recoil pad more in-line with the axis of the bore. This reduces barrel-rise during recoil and in so doing, lessens the chance of cheek slap and allows getting on second targets a little more quickly.

    When a high rib is put on a gun with a stock designed for a low rib, the comb must be raised higher to compensate for the high rib. This reduces the distance the cheek must be lowered to place it on the comb and in so doing, allows a more upright head position with the gun mounted, which is very good.

    The problem some shooters have with high ribs and unsingle guns is that they have difficulty using the rib and front bead to develop sight pictures. Sight pictures describe the relative picture of the front bead (or muzzle) and particular targets.) Rather than using the front bead, some use the muzzle, which of course, is below the front bead and and this can result in shooting over targets.

    If this explains what is happening to you, you might consider mounting a fiber optic sight on your rib. It may draw your sight-picture-creating vision to the fiber optic sight and up from the muzzle.

    The adjustable rib, as Jim wrote, allows changing or fine-tuning the relative vertical position of the beads to make it easier to check the correctness of gun mounts (often to a commonly desired figure-8 bead configuration).

    As we all know, shotguns are pointed and not aimed. The only time shooters look down the rib (and check the bead alignment) is immediately following a gun-mount. When the mount is found to be flawed, the gun can be dismounted and mounedt again and NOT wiggled into place to align the beads.

    The way that is often preferred to achieve a more upright head and neck positon (an element of good shooting form) is to raise the height of the gun mount on the shoulder or to use a stock/pad adjuster to increase the distance between the heel of the pad and the rib.

    Rollin
     
  5. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Great advice from Jim & Rollin. I completely agree.
     
  6. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    PAt, In fact, I have been told that I do have a rather long neck and face, and that contributed to issues with my original gun fit. With the new gun, I can achieve excellent "apparent" fit with little adjustment(Kolar #4 stock), except to raise the comb (see below).

    Rollin, relative to "sight picture", I generally have little or no awareness of where the barrel is, except, perhaps on a hard right on post 5, where I do need to be conscious of dialing in a bit of lead. My problem recently seems to related to being too aware of the barrel/rib creating a conflict between concentrating on the target and being distracted by the bbl/high rib, which leads to frustrating complete misses on quite simple presentations. Recently, I raised my comb to 3/16" above flush, and suddenly my breaks were more consistent..and made no adjustment to the rib...a case of getting the gun to shoot where I'm looking. In terms of getting the gun to shoot where I'm looking, adjusting the comb seems to be the key factor, and the position of the rib seems to be totally irrelevant for me. This is probably just something that I'm going to have to work through.
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Rob, you did get some excellent comments from Rich and Rollin. I have been shooting a high fixed rib TMX for 22 years. For the last 6 years or so I have been using a Uni-Dot hooded fiber optic front bead because I think I have an occasional not consistent age related crossfiring problem. Last year I got the notion that maybe the high rib on my TMX was causing me some problems with the aforementioned "shooting off the end of the barrel" thing instead of the front bead. This was the reason that Dan Bonillas never could shoot a DB81 that was named after him and instead shot a conventional rib MX3. I bought a single barrel for my MX3 Doubles gun and shot some good Singles scores with it last year and was doing well in Handicap until I had trouble with a 'too fast' release trigger. The jury is still out for me if the conventional rib MX3 will be better than the high rib TMX. When I went to the Grand I stopped at the Kolar store and had Jeff fit me with a Kolar T/S as I was very curious about the heel drop measurement in keeping my head more upright. Jeff thought that the #1 stock would be right for me instead of the excess heel drop of the #3 stock. I didn't buy the Kolar because I was really just 'tire kicking' but I did discover that looking down the rib of the Kolar T/S was really disturbing because I sure wanted to use my left eye without that hooded Uni-Dot fiber optic front bead. I am at least convinced that I need a crossfire preventer front bead and next season I will have the MX3 trigger tuned so that I can decide if the conventional rib is better than a high rib TMX.
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Rollin,

    Why would you want to get on a second target quickly with an unsingle? You only have one shell in the gun with an unsingle. I don't care how fast you get on the second target if the gun is empty. HMB
     
  9. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    Rob I shoot an old MX8 with a low rib but a couple of years ago I bought a TMX with a higher rib to setup for handicap. I can't shoot the TMX because my left eye takes over and I go from shooting 24 and 25's with the MX8 to 18's and 19s with the TMX. Before I ever shot the TMX I set the POI the same as the MX8,balanced it the same but I just cannot shoot it. I tried bright beads but my left eye for some reason wanders to the barrel not the rib. You can get a heads up attitude by adding an adjustable butt plate.
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Back in the mid-80's when everyone wanted to be Frank Little and shoot a TM-X, we ran into similar problems. We sold a bunch of 'em and got around half of them back within a year. Guys just couldn't shoot 'em!!
     
  11. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Sounds like WNCRob is having buyers remorse?
     
  12. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    HMB,

    Good point - an oversight on my part. (I was thinking "high rib" and not "unsingle".

    Rollin
     
  13. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    Well, a pattern is emerging here: some of us who have shot "traditional ribbed" guns, upon going to an unsingle or high ribbed gun, suddenly develop apparent eye-dominance issues. I began shooting in 2006 and in the fall of 2007, shooting 4 to 5 times a month in the warmer months, was knocking on the door of AA with my Ljutic. I have always had a problem, though, in that, with the gun mounted, I never saw the clay in a clear, focused manner, as I could when the gun was not mounted...even with the maximim amount of elevation dialed in with the adjustable butt pad. The new gun has more drop and more offset than the Ljutic, and I do, indeed, see the bird more clearly, but I also often miss the bird entirely...observers say the barrel was no where near the bird. So, an eye-dominance issue is arising. Either I can work through this so that the larger bbl/rib is ignored, or, bad habits will emerge that will become more difficult to overcome...at least that is my concern.

    Another issue has emerged here: "sight picture". I am going to start another string on this as I have no sight picture when shooting...I just focus on the bird and pull the trigger...yet others claim to observe a sight picture (bbl/bird relationship) when shooting, and even use illuminated beads to encourage the eye to be aware of the bead when concentrating on the clay...to me that would be even more of a distraction...I'd like to learn more.

    Many thanks to everyone for their thoughtful input.

    WNCRob
     
  14. FLAKETM

    FLAKETM TS Member

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    Rollin and others mentioned it in another way -- some people using the real high rib tend to shoot "off the end of the barrel." Some can never adjust to those real high ribs because of that. I couldn't. Had a Ljutic Olympic Rib gun for eight months and sold it as quickly as I could. Good luck. By the way, I never could get a real good definition of "shooting off the end of the barrel."
     
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