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Fixed choke (f) vs tubes

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Trap2, Mar 24, 2009.

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  1. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    George.... Leave it just the way it is.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  2. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    On a dedicated Trap gun I'd have fixed chokes. O/U barrels would be .020 on the bottom and .030 on the top. Single barrel would be in the .035 area.

    ec90t
     
  3. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Remember you can,t go back . I had a very good barrel smith talk me into tubes . Never again I shot that gun for four years and never forgot .

    Tubes are fine if your shooting Trap put the full choke tube in and go .

    ALF
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Personally, I prefer fixed chokes over choke tubes ... I had one gun in my lifetime with choke tubes, sold it first chance I got and am not sorry I did ... I see people reaching down to make sure the tube is still in and tightening it all the time and usually tell them thats why they make "LOK Tite" ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


    PS... I'm not a fan of barrel porting either but thats another subject ...
     
  5. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    southjblue:

    The issue with chokes isn't fixed vs. tubes. The issues are constriction and quality.

    Whether fixed or tubes, some chokes are better than others. Better is defined as the quality of pattern. Assuming equivalent/comparable quality, you won't break (or miss) any target with tubes that you wouldn't break (or miss) with appropriately sized fixed chokes.

    Amount of constriction (size) is a different issue. My doubles gun is a Citori with tubes. Those tubes are improved modified and light modified measured at 25 and 18 thousandths respectively. If I changed doubles guns, I'd still want about 25 and 18 thousandths of constriction because that matches my style of shooting. I wouldn't be interested in chokes materially tighter or looser than that. Fixed vs. tubes would be irrelevant.

    Installing choke tubes in your K-80 would be a way to correct a poor quality/defective fixed choke (if you had one) or to get amounts of constriction you need but don't have. However, unless there is something physically wrong with the fixed choke in your K-80, there's no advantage in changing.

    I'm not suggesting the next statement applies to you but far to many shooters look at choke tubes as a remedy for underdeveloped skills. They aren't, and it isn't possible to 'buy' additional targets with tubes.

    sissy
     
  6. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    southjblue, I have several thoughts on the subject, but there are a lot of caveats.

    I once owned a Beretta Gold E combo. I replaced the deficient factory tubes with Briley tubes. At the time I shot quickly. It was estimated my average singles target was taken at 30 yards. So that is what I tested at.

    I shot 1oz loads of 7 1/2 shot through my Briley Modified (.020") and Light Full (.030) chokes at 30 yards. The M choke put just under 91% into a 30" circle, and 75% of the hits in a 23.4" circle. The LF averaged just under 93% into a 30" circle, and 75% into a 22.75" circle. Fixed chokes or long, "worked" choke tubes will generally do better, and produce more even patterns.

    These aren't big differences. The average Full choke (.035") isn't going to appreciably smaller at 30 yards, so those above who say stay with what you have are not giving bad advice. However, you are wondering whether an IM choke will get you an additional bird per thousand. The answer is more than likely yes, but several more birds per 1000.

    Before I proceed, let me say that I shoot fixed chokes.

    In general, you get your "best" results when your pattern is 85% efficient at target breaking range. By best I mean tight enough to always do the job when you point accurately (within 5"-6" of perfect), and loose enough to have a good chance of a hit when you don't. By that metric, both my IM and LF chokes were a little too tight for 30 yard hits.

    What is best for you depends on your average. For example, if I were a high A or AA singles shooter, I'd want 90% PE at 32 yards. That's easy to do with #8 shot, and a little harder with #8 1/2, and I'd shoot 1 1/8oz loads. If my average was in the low 90s, I'd want to open that up a little to 80% with #8 1/2 or 85% with #8 until my scores improved.

    You haven't said how your barrel performs, but if it was good, I'd leave it alone. If you want to experiment, I'd suggest sending it to a good barrel smith. Although all of them measure performance by percentages, a good all around barrel (singles to 27 yard caps) seems to end up with around .032" choke. My unsingle barrel, tuned specifically for 27 yard handicap ended up at .035". If you want choke tubes, I'd still send it to a smith. Wilkinson can put his own tubes in, and he will recommend two- IM and F as all you need. He'll bore your barrel out to .740", thread, and supply his premade tubes. Allor and Eyster will have your barrel threaded and use your choice of tubes (listen to their recommendations), and then work those tubes along with the barrel. Then you end up with just what you would expect from fixed chokes, except you have a choice of chokes.

    I'm tickled pink with my Allor tuned, fixed choke barrels. He gave me EXACTLY what I asked him for. However, if I were ever to do this again, I'd stick with just an O/U set. I'd send it to Allor and tell him to make me two sets of removable chokes. One would have bunker profiles, the other normal profiles. I'd then have the best of all worlds. I'd be a 1-gun shooter with the proper chokes for any discipline.

    If it is any help, I shot my highest rolling 1000 shot average with a Wilkinson tuned Perazzi barrel with a .022" choke tube (also tuned), using 1 1/8oz #8 1/2 for singles (in the summer). I'm shooting just under that now with the Under barrel of my Allor tuned bunker barrels and 1oz #8. That choke is .019. When the weather warms, I expect to surpass my old level. I told Allor to make my unsingle into a dedicated 27 yard handicap barrel. He did, and I can tell you it is like shooting slugs at singles ranges. It's total vaporization, or a miss. I seldom see chips. My scores are higher with the Under barrel. If I were a better shooter, the gap would narrow.
     
  7. shoottilithurts

    shoottilithurts Member

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    if a shooter is on the 27 yd line, why would they shoot the same constriction for 16yd, given if there was a choice? milt luther
     
  8. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Milt-- Why not ?? Very little in this game has to do with the gun - shell or choke . You can have a choke that is to open but it is hard to have one to tight . If you center every target you win and you can,t buy a win with a choke tube .
     
  9. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    i think screw in chokes are good for 1 thing, hunting, end of story.
    steve balistreri
     
  10. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Screw in chokes let you experiment and once you do that you will probably find the best patterns come with an IMOD or Full. After this point you generally only remove the tube for cleaning which seems to be a more common chore than what a smooth fixed choke requires. If you find a fixed choke gun that smokes the targets clear back to the 27 buy it then don't mess with it.
     
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