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Fitting a stock yourself

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, Mar 17, 2010.

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  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Thought to document this process in case somebody else is interested and might possibly gain from it.

    Bought a 3200 as seen in picture above. Knew the stock didn't fit as I shouldered one at the club prior to purchase. The price was right and I love building my own stuff. So, here goes.

    Several features need to be present in my finished stock.

    1. I want my trigger finger to be parallel to the bore so that my pull of the trigger is straight back. This stock doesn't provide that, so it's going to take some major bondo work to bring the pistol grip down and forward to a right angle with the bore lines. Will also be carving a large groove for thumb on the right side. Considered a thumb hole but the stock bolt hole is low and parallel to the bottom of the stock. That probably won't allow for a thumb hole design. I want the grip to be at a right angle with the bores because I want to be able to easily pull this gun tightly into my shoulder.

    2. The comb will have to move quite a bit to the right for the beads to line up. I've not shouldered a gun that was this far off (for me), but this will be remedied with a file. Simple enough.

    3. The length of the stock needs to be shortened so that when I bring my trigger hand up to the gun, the gun isn't moved forward by having to reach so far forward. Try shouldering your gun and move your trigger hand down towards your waist, then back up. Your gun will move because the length of the stock requires you to reach forward to get to the trigger area. I don't want that to happen in my mount. Simpler is better and easier to reproduce consistently.

    4. The butt pad needs to hit my shoulder pocket. Currently the butt pad is too high and needs to be turned down into the pocket on an angle. The butt of the gun will have to be dropped quite a bit for this to work with my body build. Another job for bondo.

    Let's see where it all goes.

    Joe
     
  2. locdoc

    locdoc Member

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    It will be interesting and informative to watch your progress, Joe.

    Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist
     
  3. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Joe:
    I have very small hands and I have trouble reaching my trigger. I have never used Bondo, do you think Bondo would work in the pistol grip area to get my hand and finger closer to the trigger? If you think it would help, how long does it take for Bondo to dry, and is it easy to sand?
    steve balistreri
     
  4. BobC

    BobC TS Member

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    joe: good luck with the project.... I have redone 2 perazzi stocks, 2 1100 stocks and 1 robo (pfs) stock.... two with Bondo using rubber gloves.... I use a dremmel sander and they have all worked out well....Bob
     
  5. southjblue

    southjblue Active Member

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    Joe---I used bondo to make a comb on a browning superposed---worked great---bondo dries fast and sands great also---I stained the bondo to match the stock and it looks like factory---gL---sjb---
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Joe, as with your earlier projects, I'd not do anything until I at least found out where this gun shoots when you are shooting right down the rib, both barrels, many shots, off a rest up close and over a couple of days. No more of this sitting on the ground at night unsupported, OK? Really find out where it shoots, not just pretend-test it and move on regardless of the outcome which you can't believe anyway. Without that information you have no idea how high to make the comb,or even, for that matter, if the gun can be made to work at all. There may be a reason, after all, why the "price was right." Spending a lot of time modifying a gun because it was cheap is the only reason I can think of for not doing it. You modify a gun that works to work better, but the first requirement, "works" is the critical factor, not the cost. Remember, there are plenty of guns out there no one can shoot and I think you have already owned a couple.

    Point one. Have you ever seen an automatic pistol with the grip perpendicular with the bore? I doubt it (broom-handle Mauser excepted) . Point your finger at something and see where the vertical line of the rest of the fingers goes. They tilt back at about the angle of a .45. Single-action revolvers are the closest to perpendicular and they are a trial to shoot, at least for me.

    I wonder a bit too about your point three. Is you elbow frozen or something? I can move my hand with a gun in it in one plane only without involving either of the other planes - up or down, in or out, side to side. Can't you?

    Good luck on your project though once again, I wonder why you continue to think that the people who have already invented the wheel haven't got it pretty-much right by now. Be honest with yourself. Have you ever actually seen a Space Gun being used, not just in a glossy photo?

    Neil
     
  7. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Joe,


    After reading your post and Neil's reply, I couldn't help but wonder if instead of drastically modifying your handsome 3200, perhaps you should try modifying YOUR geometry/anatomy. It may prove to be the most direct path to your destination.


    A little bondo here, some sanding there, a well placed slice under there. Surely there's a competent saw-bones located near your domicile.



    Just good-natured kidding of course.



    Guy Babin
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I fully agree with Neil about seeing just where it shoots.. If the gun fits you really poorly.. Get a friend who can shoot this gun correctly to help you on the pattern boards.. Once that's out of the way.. i think Neil and I might vastly differ on what "might" be the correct stock for a person..

    As a shooter who has had a multitude of problems from a crushed right arm..as well as other parts.. in my earlier years.. I could not shoot a regular stock at all.. unless I canted the gun a huge amount.. My earliest 870 pump had a bead mounted on the side of the barrel.. My right wrist could not rotate.. and that allowed me to shoot.. An adjustable pad put the now canted butt in my shoulder pocket..

    I guess what I'm saying here.. is rotational problem due to injury,age,or both can vastly alter what's really right for us.. Not everything looks conventional.. Wonder what they would have said about a MX2008 in 1908???

    The biggest point to understand.. is body structure..and limits of rotational movement..

    Next time you ask someone to point to a place.. look to see if their hand is flat to the ground..as the index finger points out.. OR.. in a pistol grip shape..You'll quickly see what point ZERO is for your hand.. Your body always tries to return to point ZERO.. That is the basis for the side grip..

    While for me.. now..it's not effective.. that does NOT mean it might be right for you..

    Joe.. I've seen some of you "good" projects.. and some not so good.. But we all can learn by trying.. Without an attempt to make something better.. we'll never learn and understand all that goes into shooting dynamics..

    Keep up the good work.. and keep us posted.. All Good.. Mike
     
  9. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a shotgun that fits you fine? Can you show us a picture of it? I'm just curious what it look like.
     
  10. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    senior smoke, I think you have it backwards. If you can't reach the trigger you need to remove wood from the back of the grip, not add Bondo to the front.

    Bondo is miracle stuff. It dries in a few minutes and is easy to sand.
     
  11. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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    Lordy Lordy that a bunch of Bondo! YUK YUK YUK
    D.P.Reynolds
     
  12. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    remember....you need to sand on the bondo a little bit before adding more bondo, just to knock the glase off. It sticks to it's self better.



    tony
     
  13. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    I'll bet our like or dislike of his methods and ideas means little to Joe. He's a man on a mission & he may just hit on something real good yet! Give him a break..And incidently, bondo is great to work with. I've even tried play dough as a trial to check something out...if I didn't like the results, easy to remove and it took a couple of days to harden. Lots of work time. Incidently, wrap the wood in saran wrap and the play dough won't stick in the checkering.

    Big Jack
     
  14. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Couple of general responses:

    Thanks for the comments fellas. I appreciate the civil nature of your notes.

    The most immediate comment in terms of what I'm doing here has to do with the angle of the pistol grip - perpendicular to the bore line or sloped back slightly as in an AR style of grip. My Mach One has a sloped back grip, so I've tried that. Dennis DeVault has built a stock for himself that has the perpendicular grip and I'd like to try it. It provides something to pull against in order to get a nice firm mount into the shoulder pocket. If it doesn't work out I can always file some away.

    Checking the point of impact is vital before starting. I'm very concerned about how the barrels hit in relation to one another as well. Will settle this before starting on the stock. Thanks for the reminder. It's been raining here and my darn hot water heater covered my basement floor the last time I was going to the range with some cardboard.

    Senior - the other poster has a good point about what to add and what to take off to get your hand closer to the trigger. I like my trigger to hit my finger very close to the first knuckle. That's between the knuckle and the pad of my finger. Any closer to the end of my finger and it feels like I'm hanging onto the edge of a cliff. Adding to the front of the grip will bring your hand down and your finger in line with the bore to make you pull straight back. But then your hand will be more open if you don't take something off the back/top of the grip or at least file a groove for your thumb, which I plan on doing here.

    When I bondoed my Mach One stock (which I will try to post a picture of) I used cardboard from a cereal box and masking tape to make a mold for what I wanted to fill. A thin layer of plastic from those school binder inserts kept the bondo from sticking to the cardboard. Worked real well, dried fast and sanded easily. I always tried to put a little more on than what I wanted and sanded it back into shape taking off all the nooks and crannies.

    Sir Neil - "I can move my hand with a gun in it in one plane only without involving either of the other planes - up or down, in or out, side to side. Can't you? " I think my example wasn't clear. Mount your gun and hold it with your left hand, moving your trigger finger down towards your waist about a foot from the gun. When I move back to the trigger area, my 3200, 14.5 inch lop, moves forward a little. It isn't much, but it does move as I reach for the grip. Since you don't have a gun the 'right' LOP, you can't see the difference. With my Mach One, 13 inch LOP, the gun doesn't move at all. Nothing. That's what I like and I don't expect to ever sell this to anybody because of the expense in trying it. Note that others have shot my gun and they seemed to adjust readily to the LOP, which doesn't really prove much...

    Sir Neil - Also, "why you continue to think that the people who have already invented the wheel haven't got it pretty-much right by now. Be honest with yourself. Have you ever actually seen a Space Gun being used, not just in a glossy photo?" I don't go by what sells. And no, they don't have it right pretty much. There isn't a gun I've shouldered that I would be happy with in terms of fit without making mods. The gun should conform to me, not the other way around. I do enough conforming in other aspects of my life...(don't mention this to Holga or my boss at work).

    Another aspect of this is stock fitting cost. A can of bondo and some primer is pretty darn cheap. I just don't have the funds for a real fitting and wouldn't do so on a gun this cheap. But if the bbls don't hit close to the same spot, then something will have to be done. There's a solution for that too. It would cost as much as the gun, but hey. I'm going to try this for now. When I had my Mach One fitted and couldn't really shoot it Dennis offered to buy it from me. I said no and put some weight in it to completely change the balance. I shoot it pretty well now. I'm no ace, but I shoot well enough to keep coming back. I'm a club shooter and having fun, which is all I'm really after.

    I like the Play-dough idea, saran wrap and sanding the glaze. Thanks for the encouraging words too.

    Joe
     
  15. EE

    EE Banned User Banned

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    No, no, no, Joe, Neil is right. Form follows function, and gun form has been evolving with function for centuries. These radical departures of yours from current norms are nothing but a distraction from the real task at hand - find a competent gun fitter to fit your gun correctly, then learn to shoot. Your comment that, "The gun should conform to me, not the other way around" shows why you have so much trouble with this. You don't know what the gun should do because you tried to re-invent the gun before you ever knew what a gun was supposed to do. Go try shooting ducks, or doves, or pheasants, with one of those monstrosities of yours; you'll never hit one.

    Hope this helps.

    EE
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I say, let Joe Go. Let him finish this mission so we can all see how he gets to the end result.

    Of course we will critcize and chastise him on the way, but that's what TS.Commers' do!
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    EE, using your thoughts one would think modern military rifles should "look" the same as WW2 and the Koran police action arm did? They certainly don't!! I think they resemble what Joe is after with his new stock. Remember too, trap guns today haven't changed all that much in looks when compared to a high end Parker of the 20s era??

    I'm sure some of you recall chastising Joe for his holo sight 4 inches above the barrel on his first experimental shotgun and many stated he'd never break a 25 with such a thing??? I'd think for a very part time trap shooter breaking a 99 with such a contraption nullifies a few experts??

    Pick out the information thats useful to your experiment and send the rest to the TS outhouse.

    Hap
     
  18. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    EE, There's nothing here for you.
     
  19. Golden Beebe

    Golden Beebe TS Member

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    Joe...

    I'm not exactly sure what your trying to do. Truly I don't understand... Regardless I thought up something you may ponder.


    You said..."want my trigger finger to be parallel to the bore so that my pull of the trigger is straight back. This stock doesn't provide that, so it's going to take some major bondo work to bring the pistol grip down and forward to a right angle with the bore lines"


    Okay I think I understand. Virtually just a "broom handle look"... considering you speak of "pistol grip" I thought about Olympic small bore shooters, these shooters use a "relaxed wrist" technique. Note even though I was thinking on your behalf I didn't use the term "Limp Wrist".


    Apparently this works quite well, and may be something you consider in your endeavors building the next Khuner thingy...


    <a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/bulldograce/?action=view┬Ąt=Joe1.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  20. Golden Beebe

    Golden Beebe TS Member

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    CCW1911...

    Oh I have a pretty good idea about these pistols. You see Joe and I have a history, and seeing that he thinks so far out of the box I thought he might consider something like this....

    ...and perhaps there was a little punn in my message.

    Hap... Take note I wasn't mean at all to you buddy...
     
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