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Fireproof Gun Safe and Ammo Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Auctioneer, Sep 29, 2009.

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  1. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I was talking to some people at the tractor store and we were talking about guns, ammo, Obama and so on. One person said he has enough ammo for a last a long time. I asked if he was storing it in the gun safe with his guns. He said yes. He also added that it had a 2000 degree rating. I told him that it would be best to not store the ammo in the safe because when the ammo goes off it will rattle around in the safe and damage every gun he had if there was a fire. He still felt that that would not happen because of the 2000 degree rating on the safe. I kept quiet and let him think what he wanted. What is the temp to cook off ammo? does anyone here know?
     
  2. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

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    You were talking different temp ratings. The safe is rated for 2000 degrees OUTSIDE the safe. The internal temperature should only reach approx 250 degrees which I would think is still ok not to cause anything to go off. Or at least I hope so because I also keep my ammo in the safe. I guess better to damage the guns, rather than to have it flying around the neighborhood.
     
  3. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

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    Just double checked and my safe was tested to 1500 degrees with the internal temp only reaching 250 or so. Paper can handle up to 450 degrees, but from some googling around it seems that temp varies from high-200 to mid-300 for 22lr to 45acp. Not really sure it's accurate but seems higher than the temp inside the safe. Also just learned that it will not "fire", just pop in place since it's not contained. So basically I am sticking with keeping ammo in the safe.
     
  4. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    Slightly off the topic, any particular reason to store ammo in a gun safe?
     
  5. Fathawk

    Fathawk TS Member

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    Without outside direction (a tube to direct) the pressure of the powder burning, there is no projectile. Bullets are propelled by the gases behind them, without it there is only a fizz out.


    Nothing to worry about.
     
  6. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I knew a guy who sold gun safes. One day he told me to look inside a durned looking safe. Inside were about 3 to 4 guns. All looked like sh!$$. He said the guy kept is ammo inside the safe and he had a fire in his house. His guns would have been fine if he did not have ammo in the safe. To those who think its OK you just might want to call you safe dealer and ask them if they keep their ammo in the safe with their guns.
     
  7. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Ammo stored in boxes in cases is surrounded by other cartridges and backed by same. With nowhere for the bullet to go cooked off cartridges could build up enough pressure to make life interesting.
     
  8. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    Steve-
    Its locked up when its in the safe. Some people have just as much to lose if their ammo gets stolen.
     
  9. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Bad idea....ammo and guns in the same safe.......should the ammo reach enough to cook it, the gases and other debris would damage your guns....That powder needs no air to burn..I would not put a large amount of ammo , powder, primers, in a safe, without guns, as now you have the potential for an explosion.......No consideration taken, that it is illegal to store them that way.


    What is everyone doing with the ammo cans they haul out of gun shows by the truckload.
     
  10. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    fyi- local family had a house fire- guns in the safe, in the basement just like everyone else-- house is partially saved. 4 hrs later they get into the basement- open the safe, take all the guns out, drive 30 min. to a relatives home to store-- when exposed to the air- SOLID RUST- and i dont mean a lil!
     
  11. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Understand something very, very clearly...those temperature ratings are for a very specific, and often not very long, period of time. On many safes, 1/2 hour is not unusual.

    Almost all home safes maintain temperature control in a fire by putting Gypsum (sheetrock stuff, eh) in the walls of the safe. Gypsum contains a lot of water. As the safe gets hot on the outside the water is driven out of the gypsum and cools the interior of the safe by its evaperation...until its gone, then nothing.

    This is why acss' story about guns getting bad surface rust is not surprising. Mix the water vapor from the gypsum with the ash particulants from the fire and you have a pretty caustic mix.

    This is why I keep all of my guns in gun socks while in the safe...I too have a friend whose guns that were bare rusted to there and back, while those in the gun socks were pretty much ok.
     
  12. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure there are Federal laws regarding the storage of ammunition over a certain amount that require it to be in a bunker constructed in accordance with their guidelines.

    The gun shows I've been to lately haven't had "truckloads" of ammo for anyone to haul out. Fortunately, the ammo and component manufacturers tell me that the buying craze seems to be ending, as they are beginning to be able to keep up with the demand for their products. But it'll still be a while before you can buy a box of any kind of handgun ammo you want - I haven't seen a box of new "big-3" 185-grain JHP .45ACP ammo for almost a year!

    The present shortage makes me wonder why the target shotshell makers would bother offering a rebate at this time. Could it be because their production has already caught up with demand? "Black guns" are all the rage right now and users of them go through a lot of ammo during each use, but every ammo company seems to have plenty of .223 ammo on the stores' shelves right now.

    Ed
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I have a SAAMI video (done in conjunction with the National Fire Protection Association, and several other firefighters associations) where they cooked off, in direct fires, literally tons of ammo and smokeless powders.

    Never an explosion, and no bullets flying around.

    The intent was to show firefighters what to expect when fighting fires involving firearm ammunition (specifically excluding black powder.)

    A bullet from a .30-06' cartridge, fired external to the barrel, will not penetrate standard corrugated cardboard.

    Primers and metallic casing shards go flying, but both are lightweight and if you're wearing firefighting garb, did not penetrate.

    That said, to me its a bad idea to store your ammo with your guns.
     
  14. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I store my guns in the safe and my ammo in the garage ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  15. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    ED ED ED ED......JEEEEESSSSSHHHHH.........<em>"AMMO CANS"</em>......Not truckloads of "AMMO"......."TRUCKLOADS of AMMO CANS"......And your a writer?????????


    Seems like this foaming at the mouth to misquote me is becoming a pandemic.


    RE:AVERAGED:<em>"The gun shows I've been to lately haven't had "truckloads" of ammo for anyone to haul out."</em>
     
  16. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

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    ok so this is getting complicating....

    1) it is bad to keep the ammo in the safe since it's not terribly dangerous in a fire...ok fine

    2) the guns will get covered in rust in a fire...this one is new to me. so what am i supposed to go, put all the rifles and handguns into socks? that doesn't really work too work since a lot of stuff is scoped.
     
  17. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    Just a point of interest to those interested. In 1954 a old gentelman lived in a log cabin along the Trask River in Oregon. He had a wide variaty of guns and ammo as he was a hunter, fisherman and general all around outdoors man. The guns of many calibers both remfire and center fire along with black powder and reloading equipment all went up in flame one evening when his cabin caught fire and burnt to the ground caused by spark from his wood stove. Several days later several of us went through the burnt remains and found much of his ammo. The bullets remained in the cases but the cases had expanded to release the pressure. During the fire there was a lot of popping but no evidence of bullets flying. Post-2
     
  18. mike b.

    mike b. Member

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    During the Calif. fires a few years back, many safes were still standing after the fires leveled the homes. Unfortunately the contents were just heat treated metal things....all wood plastic, etc. gone ! 1/2 hour is probably the limit !
     
  19. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Probably the best thing you could do if you are worried about fire, is to install a sprinkle system in your house, Residential sprinkler systems are not that expensive. Now, the guns in a safe & the ammo in a water proof enclosure would most likely be safe. The room, that I keep my guns, ammo, reloaders & components is sprinkler equipped. (this is really important if you are in a rural area)

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  20. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I have heard people say to put your safe near a window or install a water pipe so the fire dept can put water on the safe to keep it cool during the fire.
     
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