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Firearms and spouses of felons - legal discussion

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Brian in Oregon, Nov 25, 2010.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Interesting legal discussion of firearms possession by those who have a spouse who is a convicted felon. The authorities in all too many cases have seen this as "constructive possession", thus denying possession by the non-felon spouse. Going further, some non-felon spouses have been convicted or pled guilty to providing a firearm to a felon, a felony itself. Note that this isn't limited to felonies like robbery or violence. It also applies to felonies like some levels of DUI.
     
  2. Mike Battista

    Mike Battista Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Savage99stan,
    What you are talking about is a straw purchase. ATF would love to hear from you.
    Mike Battista
     
  3. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Mike is exactly correct! There isn't any more important issue as far as the ATF is concerned than a Straw Purchase. As a former FFL holder, I like Mike, can attest to it.

    blade819
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If BATF suspects a pattern of straw sales occurring by an FFL holder, they can, and they will, revoke the FFL.

    If you are suspecting straw purchase activity, you better get some legal advice on how to deal with it, before you find yourself getting uncomfortably close scrutiny by BATF.
     
  5. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    So someone buying a gun for someone else for a gift like Christmas,Birthday,Anniversary or whatever the occasion may be is considered a straw purchase now. What a wonderful country we live in these days.
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Only free people can own weapons.

    A. E. Van Vogt, 1951. (The Weapon shops of Isher.)

    HM
     
  7. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    There are two local pawn shops that recently did some straw purchases and they were to individuals that were wearing a wire. In both places they told the people that it was no problem getting someone else to do the paper work. There were a total of five people involved and court dates haven't been set yet. I'll bet there will be some jail time involved. One of them was a city police officer and has now been fired from that job and is waiting to go to court. Some folks do some dumb mistakes.

    As for as being able to purchase a gun for a gift that is no problem and is not illegal as long as the individual is not a felon or has been denied purchase. I've done thousands of sells/4473's and know an atf agent pretty well and can call him anytime with questions without any reprecussions. I learned that they would rather answer your questions and know that you are trying to do it right. Jackie B.
     
  8. Sprinklerman

    Sprinklerman Member

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    If an indivual buys a gun, does the 4473 and the guns is given away at fund raiser like Pheasants forever banquet is this considered a straw purchase?
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>"So someone buying a gun for someone else for a gift like Christmas,Birthday,Anniversary or whatever the occasion may be is considered a straw purchase now."</i>

    A straw purchase means you are purchasing the firearm on behalf of a prohibited person.

    It is not a straw purchase if you are purchasing the firearm and are going to give the firearm as a gift, provided the person who is receiving it can lawfully posses it. This does not mean the person is able to purchase the firearm on their own.

    ----------

    Example, you purchase a firearm for a grandchild, who is under 18.

    So, are you the "actual buyer of the firearm" if you are gifting it to someone?

    Yes.

    ---------

    Example, you are purchasing a firearm for your cousin, a convicted car thief, with money he provided you?

    So, are you the "actual buyer of the firearm" if you are purchasing it on behalf of someone who is prohibited from owning a firearm because of felony conviction, dishonorable discharge, etc.?

    No. The prohibited person is the actual buyer, and you are the "straw man".
     
  10. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Brian,

    Back to the original question. The spouce, of a convicted felon, does have every right to own a firearm. He/she shouldn't be refused the right just because of what another has done.

    The sticky part here is where/how the firearm is stored. If the firearm is stored in a secure area, of their residence, and the convicted felon has no acess to to said firearms everything should be good. If there is no secure area in the residence, the firearm(s) should be stored off-site in a secure area where the C.F. has no access.

    If said firearms are used in an illegal activity and have been found to contain the fingerprints of the C.F., then addition charges should be filed against the spouce for not properly storing them.

    This is how I'd see it, but I'm neither a lawmaker or judge.

    ss
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    SS, I agree to a point.

    Where we differ is the part about the fingerprints. In and of themselves that does not prove whether the firearms were properly stored or not. More investigation and evidence would be required in addition to the fingerprints to arrive at a conclusion. In other words, it proves the "CF" touched the firearm. It does not prove the circumstances that permitted it.
     
  12. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    You dont have to touch a firearm to be in possession

    Some jurisdictions count ammo as part of the possession - with or without the firearm-- one person in Iowa is in jail for life- they found a 22 long rifle bullet between floor boards of a rented house

    I would not take this website as anything but conjecture- the facts are unique and the jurisdiction is specific--

    If your spouse is a felon- you have firearms in your vehicle and or dwelling at your own peril- and theirs-- they will be up the crick without a paddle and you will be in the 90 percent level of danger


    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  13. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Brian,

    Part of my ignorance about the rights of a C.F. is that I know none. My understanding is that a C.F. has no right to hold any firearm. To me this is possession, not to be confused with ownership.

    I'm no lawyer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. LOL.

    ss
     
  14. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Unlicensed Persons Questions

    Q: Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?

    Yes, a person who —

    1. Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;

    2. Is a fugitive from justice;

    3. Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;

    4. Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;

    5. Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;

    6. Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

    7. Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her
    citizenship;

    8. Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or

    9. Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

    10. Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.

    A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.

    Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n), 27 CFR 478.32]
     
  15. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    So if a CF shows up at the club to shoot trap he is up the creek? How about if he rides with someone who is not a CF, gets a shotgun owned by the driver from the trunk, and shoots trap?
     
  16. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    He doesnt need to "get" anything

    If it is within his ability to reach it- open the trunk- go into the closet- safe- whatever- it is generally considered to be in his or her possession

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Gene, you seem to be very harsh on this one. Can you relate an anecdote?

    I know of an individual who, during the Viet Nam War era was found in posession of marijuana during a traffic stop. His pal was on leave and had brought some back. At the time this was a felony and he was convicted of posession.

    Now it is a misdemeanor and does not taint the person's record as far as firearms ownership is concerned. what do the amateur lawyers say about this?

    HM
     
  18. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I am not harsh -- just clearing up a misconception about possession

    As I said- sent one guy to prision here for life- a single 22 bullet lodged between floorboards of a house he was renting

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  19. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Gene,

    That was the one thing they could pin on him. What did he do leading up to this to warrent such punishment?

    ss
     
  20. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    A person may try to have there record expunged.

    However, if expunged at the state level it may not be recognized by the feds, such as if you have been convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence.

    -------------------

    Can felons carry guns? Do guns laws for felons vary by state? Are any states, such as Texas, particularly harsh on felons carrying guns? When is a felon eligible for a gun permit again?



    http://felonyguide.com/Felony-Gun-Laws.php
     
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