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FFL Holders - BATF Medical Marijuana Ruling

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Sep 26, 2011.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    FFL Holders:

    BATF issed an open letter on Sept 21 addressing the issue of firearms transfers, ammunition sales, and possession of firearms by medical marijuana users.

    This ruling disallows such transfers, sales or possession, and overrides any state laws to the contrary.

    A copy of the letter is in pdf format at the link.
     
  2. Kemper

    Kemper Active Member

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    this will continue to happen until the BATF hands over states the right to govern themselves.

    barry kemper
     
  3. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Folks with Handgun Carry Permits, Armed Guard Licenses, POST creds, or State/Federally Licensed Trainers take note!
     
  4. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Another specific chink in the armor of liberty. A little here. A little there.

    This can play out in some interesting ways. We all know a bartender shouldn't sell more alcohol to someone who is already intoxicated. In a similar vein I wouldn't transfer a firearm to someone who I thought was impaired at the time of transfer. After she kills someone I'd have to say something like this to the judge, "Yes, sir, I thought she was too drug to be carrying a firearm, but I didn't want to make trouble so I just finished the transfer. " I suspect my sentence would be less than the killer's, but it could still be uncomfortable.

    That's easy. Don't transfer to someone who is obviously not operating with a full deck. I can spot that kind of person. How, though, would a FFL know the transferee is "using" any substance? What about the likely situation where the legal prescription drugs have the transferee buzzed most of the time? What's my liability when a person under the influence does something really bad? It seems the Mr. Holder and company, have made it clear that the FFL has a liability if they have "reasonable cause to believe". I can just imagine a definition for "reasonable cause to believe".

    Is interplanetary travel a possibility before 2013? I'd like to put my name on a list.

    Larry

    Larry
     
  5. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Will this stop with marijuana? how about all the other drugs doctor are giving out like candy? what If your dentist gives you a script for pain?
     
  6. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Wake up! for what it's worth Marijuana is not legal. Federal law prohibits it's sale and use. Most of the users have no medical necessity that an asprin wouldn't take care of anyway. I'm for it, a druggie is just that whether he get's a script for it or buys from a street corner dealer.

    In reading the Batf document, the "reasonable cause" was referring to the presentation of a "Medical Marijuana Users" card as a form of ID, or the person stating to the dealer that he or she was in fact a user of "Medical Marijuana". I see no problem with this one.

    I am certainly not a fan of the BATF, but I detest a drug user more.
     
  7. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I have always wondered when certain posters, on this forum, would comment on this very subject......seems my crystal ball still works.

    Just what America does not need is a bunch of burnt out dopers, packin firearms.
    There has to be a line that we cannot cross..without it there would be chaos..life is full of choices, you make the wrong ones, you loose.
     
  8. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    At what point will the Feds get access to the state lists (Obama Care?) and marry them to the NICS background check?
     
  9. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Here is the problem i see. What happens when they decide people that take legally prescribed narcotics(pain killers) should not own firearms? I don't think anyone should shoot a gun while under the influence of pain killers, alcohol or any other drug that affects your ability to think correctly or reaction time. That said does it mean because you have been prescribed meds you shouldn't be able to own? So you have a minor surgery even dental work. The doc gives you some Vicodens for the post surgery pain. All of a sudden you jumped into the category of citizens not allowed to own firearms. One minor suregry and your on the no-gun list. Even if it was just a temporary thing until the pain was gone. I highly doubt they(the government) would make such a distinction. I too don't think people smoking weed should be shooting guns but it won't end with the weed. I can see it as them just getting their foot in the door. Just my 2 cents.

    I don't know, does that make sense?
     
  10. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen:

    I think its reasonable for voters to ask two questions.

    1. A majority of WHICH party has for decades proposed and supported an endless stream of anti-gun and anti-second amendment legislation?

    2. Which party's membership has a history of routinely opposing that legislation?

    There will be an election next year. Please vote accordingly.

    sissy
     
  11. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    The hardcore dopers are already packing,they have no regard for handgun laws, that's why we have our CPL's.
     
  12. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I am reluctant to enter this debate, but feel compelled somehow. You shouldn't lump legitimate medical marijuana users in with typical dopers.

    The fact that marijuana is illegal and alcohol, oxycontin and percocet are not is a matter of policy and control, and dollars. Read the side effects of oxycontin and percocet sometime.

    The very fact that the federal government can make marijuana illegal in a state where it is grown by a user for personal consumption should make any conservative or libertarian on this site chiver with rage. The SCOTUS case that upheld the federal drug law did so on the basis that growing a small amount for personal consumption could affect supply and demand, and therefore, affect interstate commerce. Without the commerce clause, the federal government has no right to regulate drugs, above a state's rights.

    I'd also bet that all of you who are against medical marijuana are in favor of the Montana Firearms Freedom Act, the bill declares that a firearm which is manufactured in Montana, and never leaves the State of Montana, “is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce.” Based on the marijuana case, Montana will lose this case to the SCOTUS because they will affect supply and demand for firearms.

    And finally, J.Woolsey,

    If you are debilitating pain, or suffer extreme nausea after chemotherapy, keep my email handy and I'll make sure you have an ample supply of aspirin.

    Danny

    PS - I am 57, and I've never smoked marijuana.
     
  13. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    The right to enjoy your body and do what you wish with your body is as fundamental as the right to defend your body.

    You say that drugs harm society? They'll note that guns kill more people than marijuana.

    This hypocrisy in admitting some rights, but not others, is why so many people despise Republicans. Republicans, far more than Democrats, are the party associated with limiting freedom.
     
  14. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Light that bad boy up and pass it around, we all need to chill a bit. Drugs are good for ya, if they weren't they wouldn't be controlled by the government.

    GneJ
     
  15. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    I'm not a MJ smoker, don't smoke at all, but I can see it was wrong to make MJ a schedule 1 drug along with Heroin while Meth and Cocaine are schedule 2. I think our whole drug policy needs a revamp.

    I don't doubt a bit the back door gun controllers would put someone who has a drink or two of good Scotch in the same bracket as a medical MJ smoker. Not only that but they are a lot of us trap shooters old enough to be on daily medications that say right on the bottle " do not operate heavy machinery etc etc". Not a far stretch with wrong headed thinking to say that would eliminate you from operating a firearm.

    People dieing and in great pain can get Morphine but not MJ, how does that make sense? Shouldn't we give those poor soles anything we can to help them?
     
  16. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    If marijuans is so damn illegal why do they have a tx on it? (been in existence for years)

    HM
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well, I posted this in the shooting section as a heads up to FFL holders. Wasn't intended to be a political post, so I worded it as neutrally as possible.

    But since it has become a political thread, the overwhelming majority of "medical" marijuana users are frauds. For example, the town of Williams, Oregon has... get this... 400 out of 2000 residents using "medical" marijuana. That's 20%. I call BS on that one.

    Should marijuana be legalized? I'm neutral on that. I have never used it, never will. I don't care for dopers. But I detest the War on drugs even more for being a big waste of money, big expansion of government, and a big abuser of rights.

    But the fact is, marijuana on the federal level is not legal, and it has always been grounds for denial of a firearms purchase and ownership. This is not something new. This letter came about because some states are exempting "medical" marijuana users. In Oregon, it came to a head because sheriffs doing background checks on CHL applicants came across their MM licenses in their databases. Oregon said MM licenses were not a reason to deny CHL. The Feds say otherwise.
     
  18. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I would trust a firearm in the hands of a pot smoker before an alcohol abuser.

    Pot mellows people out, alcohol makes them combative.

    Just my take.

    HM
     
  19. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    HM, Alcohol is a depressant!!! Just like other drugs it makes people do different things with differing abouts of whatever they are taking. I would not want to shoot with anyone taking anykind of drug period. Alcohol is a drug just like a Malboro cig. is. You would thing that the gov. would have learned during prohabition that they can't control drugs the public wants to use. Best thing is to teach young children not to do drugs. break em all Jeff
     
  20. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    Brian,

    The Feds can speak to the 4473 but not a state's CHL. A CHL is entirely in a state's bailiwick.

    Plus, where did the people ever give the federal government the authority to make marijuana illegal? They had to pass an amendment to ban alcohol, because the Constitution didn't give the authority to intrude into that facet of life.

    Lastly, how many people should have a medical marijuana prescription? If caffeine required a prescription, would you be calling B.S. if everyone had a prescription for Folger's? How about aspirin? That marijuana improves many conditions and has so few side effects makes it an item that can be comfortably prescribed.

    I presume every house has aspirin, and I'll say "where do you keep your aspirin?" as if it's a household staple. Marijuana may one day achieve a similar status, and this senseless prohibition may be viewed with embarrassment.
     
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