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Faster Trap load produce higher point of impact

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Fraz, Mar 21, 2012.

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  1. Fraz

    Fraz TS Member

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    Is a faster trap load apt to give a higher point of Impact 1150 -, 1200, 1300, or is it a perception, noticed in 7/8 or 1oz loads or even 1 1/8 Nitro 27's.
    Thanks
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    No, try both and measure to pattern centers. The faster load may spread a tad more making it look like the slower load is higher! Always measure to pattern center above POA.

    Hap
     
  3. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    To Hap's point, the proof is always in the pudding and you will sometimes get a surprise when testing actual loads, shotguns and chokes.

    But from a pure physics standpoint, with all else equal, the answer is definitely YES -- a faster load on average will indeed have a higher POI. But it's not enough to make much difference. For #7-1/2 shot, at 40 yards, the POI difference between 1145fps and 1300fps loads would be 5/8" - 3/4". That's virtually meaningless as far as your average is concerned. I mean, your POI likely varies that much, shot-to-shot, based on gun mount alone.

    Choose a load you can tolerate, point the gun properly, and the targets will break.

    -Gary
     
  4. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    A faster load will in reality give you a higher POI like comparing a Nitro-27 to a 2 3/4 dram load.

    Both shot at the same time the 1250 load will get there faster, thus equals a higher shooting shell with everything being done equally.

    It is not that much but if you are breaking the tops out of targets you could easily shoot over the targets w/faster load.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Pattern the two loads at 16 yards, a 1100 and a 1300fps and measure to the pattern centers? Some will say the slow load patterns higher but that isn't fact when measured from POA to pattern centers. Try it for yourself?

    Hap
     
  6. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Theoretically, a faster load will pattern lower. The barrel rises in the
    firing process. The faster the shot leaves the barrel, the less time the
    barrel has to rise.

    In handgun shooting, the difference is noticeable. Heavy bullets fired
    at a low velocity shoot much higher that light bullets at a high velocity.
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I have seen the phenomenon dickgtax notes in high powered rifles. Its counterintuitive, but it does happen.

    Not sure if the same happens with shotguns.
     
  8. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    I too am stumped on a shotgun. BUT I do agree with dicktax. Slower bullits in handguns will DEFINITELY print higher than faster ones and the difference is noticable. The reason he gave is spot on.
     
  9. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    A second for dickqtax, except theoretically AND practically. Just be sure you are comparing apples to apples. For the same payload, faster load will print lower.
     
  10. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    dickqtax is right when it comes to handguns.
    Whether it happens in rifles and shotguns is something I have not noticed but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
     
  11. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <center>
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    Keller
     
  12. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The effect of higher vel resulting in lower POI is something I haave noticed in both rifles and pistols and particularily with the bigger calibers. Genrally the effect is on the order of 3" at 25 yards when you switch from a .44 mag to a .44 special load in the same cylinder load. I also believe this is an effect of recoil so I wouldn't be supprised if it applise to shotguns as well.

    But to be truthful, I have never noticed any difference in the POI of my shotguns due to the ammo probably because the velocity differences are not that great.
     
  13. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    The faster the shot gets to the target the less time gravity has to work on it. Thus the POI will be higher. But not enough to matter and perhaps not even enough to measure.
     
  14. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Just to throw in my two cents...

    When I was at Kolar, we had a indoor range to 50yds. Everything patterned,ie.. 90-t, Kolar Guns, etc. were shoot from a solid rest at 40 yds. During the mid 90's, we had a good supply of Rem Premiers (the now older green hulls).

    Using the same gun, using several different shooters, we would find that the 2-3/4dr, 1-1/8 loads would shoot higher than the 3dram loads w/ 1-1/8 load of shot. When the 2-3/4 dram load was shot to compare to a Remington Nitro Gold load, the pattern (measure fron the centers), the Nitros were 3" lower.

    Our conclusion was the same as Dick's explaination above. We never did try hose clamping the gun down to eliminate all of the muzzle jump....

    I did read some many years ago, someone writing about another possibilty and that had to do with the velocities. He mentioned that at 40yds, a light load and a std 3dr load were traveling at the same speed. The 3dr load, traveling faster had to "buffer through" a denser air column because its compressing more air, causing it to slow more than a 2-2/3dr load. I don't remember their explaination for the POI difference other than what was written.

    Anyway...Doug
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Theoretically, a faster load will pattern lower. The barrel rises in the firing process. The faster the shot leaves the barrel, the less time the barrel has to rise."


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    Just wondering how much upward movement of the barrel is seen before the bullit leaves the barrel??

    Bob Lawless
     
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