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Fairness in Trapshooting

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hauser, Apr 16, 2010.

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  1. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    There was a recent thread regarding the qualification requirements for the Minnesota state team. One of the talking points mentioned was a proposal to level the playing field.
    Without getting into any of the specifics of that thread this again brings up the question of fairness in trapshooting.


    There is the perception that trap shooting is not fair and it favors those shooters that have enough experience to take advantage of the rules and the way most shoots are run to their benefit.


    The perception of unfairness in trapshooting would be greatly reduced with the following rule changes:


    A) No one can change a legally set target to suit his or her shooting preferences.

    When trap personnel are called to check a trap they will determine if the targets are legal. If they determined the targets are legal no changes are permitted.

    B) Starting traps are based on a random draw. No picking a specific starting trap or bank.


    C) No re-squading permitted. This will eliminate the few who pull out of an event in bad weather then re-enter when it clears up.


    Incorporate these changes into the rulebook and most of the concerns regarding fairness or preferential treatment disappear.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  2. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    D) Practice traps and shoot-off traps will be set the same as the other traps. AJ
     
  3. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, those ideas would improve the games fairness a bunch. If angles can become illegal, why do we accept targets that are 12 feet or more high as good? The rule says a target is legal between 8 and 10 foot setting, with 9-1/2 foot preferred or recommended?

    Hap
     
  4. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

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    A) No one can change a legally set target to suit his or her shooting preferences.

    When trap personnel are called to check a trap they will determine if the targets are legal. If they determined the targets are legal no changes are permitted.

    Problem here is are the trap setting personnel qualified and knowledgable enough to know how to set a proper target? Also, do they care?

    B) Starting traps are based on a random draw. No picking a specific starting trap or bank.

    Don't allow them to pick a squad, just assign it.

    C) No re-squading permitted. This will eliminate the few who pull out of an event in bad weather then re-enter when it clears up.

    Incorporate these changes into the rulebook and most of the concerns regarding fairness or preferential treatment disappear.


    Just make resquadding fee substantial enough (ie $50 or more)to discourage practice.
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I'd shoot under those rules and like it, Jerry. In fact, I pretty much do now.

    Neil
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If a squad resets legal but poor targets, it helps every squad that follows then. I am convinced that many shooters do not recognize poorly set targets and just shoot them. I like shoots where a target setter is walking the line all day long and making any necessary adjustments to the targets. Targets that are well set in the morning may not be set well in the afternoon.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I especially like B) Starting traps are based on a random draw. No picking a specific starting trap or bank.

    How would you keep the volunteer help, favored shooters, and big money donors from "randomly drawing" their desired bank(s) every time?
     
  8. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    recurvyarcher

    Any random draw system can be manipulated. All you have to do is have everyone on a squad, their wives and friends pull a squad. What it does is give a particular squad of shooters many choices when a number is drawn.

    The only way I know of stopping this would make every shooter that pulls a squad pay for the event at that time.

    Mark Rounds
     
  9. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Mark


    The Tucson club does not post the starting traps until just prior to the start of each event. They use that procedure for the Autumn, and Spring Grands, as well as the State shoot.


    Basically no one know which traps they are going to shoot until the event begins.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  10. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    That's an excellent way of keeping it fair, Hauser.
     
  11. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Jerry

    The time it starts makes no difference. The squads that do this make sure they don't go out in the first flight. If a squad of 5 shooters has in their possession several different starting positions, it only takes a minute to sign up the other 4 shooters.

    Mark
     
  12. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    OK, how about a combination of Jerry's and Mark's solutions? I would like to see a rule like that be incorporated for all ATA shoots. Anybody else?
     
  13. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Don't we have enough problem keeping attendance up? Why do we want to make it more difficult for the shooters. We tried 3 hole targets and attendance went down. This would do the same.

    jim brown
     
  14. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, when things are not fair, it makes it MORE difficult for the shooters. Although I agree that handicapped and/or very elderly shooters should have easy access to their trap, in which cases an exception to the rule should be made.
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Attendance is down at trapshoots with 2-hole targets. Jim, so based on your assumption, the answer to greater attendance should be a 1-hole target or perhaps straightaways only.

    Seems we already have no bank selection at many major tournaments. I suppose the "big dog" squads are just luckier pickers as they still seem to always get the best banks!!
     
  16. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    I see the "Big Dogs" shooting on the same banks I shoot on. I also see them shooting the same targets I shoot. They beat me because they were better than I was not because of any advantage. You may not like to admit it but that is why they beat you too. Excuses won't help.

    jim brown
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Large shoot usually 150 plus squads random pick for bank. They are starting 10 squads at a time once all 10 squads have started isn't it normal to follow the sequence.

    If this is the case all the shooters need to know is what bank they want and sign up on the what ever squads necessary to get the desired bank.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Jim, when's the last time you shot bank 6 at the Silver Dollar and shot with an All-American? How 'bout bank 6 through 12 at Elysburg PA?

    I'll answer for you-never!!
     
  19. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Sparta is about as far east as I ever plan to shoot now that the Grand isn't in Ohio.

    jim brown
     
  20. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    ollie you are wrong. I shot over on the golf side at both the Dixie and the Southern and there were the big dogs shooting infront and behind me. I ran bank 6 2 out of 4 times, I think #4 is the worse and there were Kaye and family shooting. Many of the so called Bigs pay in advance so when banks are drawn how do they benefit.

    Mark do you ever quit whinning about the Bigs. At Stuart cashiered shoots you should know that you can't draw a spot without a ATA card for that shooter. So just how do the Bigs get mulitple spots and hold all the squads. You are living in the dark ages as are a few of the smaller shoots.

    Some of you worry more about how the others are shooting instead of how you are doing. The trouble is that some actually believe what you say.

    Don
     
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