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Failure to pay and lost score?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bernie K, Aug 15, 2011.

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  1. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    This past shoot in PA at the PA Grand I joined the ranks of those of us that for one reason or another forgot to pay for my targets. I went to the window to pay and the woman right before me got to pay for hers I swiped my card and the window came up EVENT CLOSED. I asked shoot management if I could shoot just targets and was told I could not. Now the question is this.

    What harm is done if I shoot targets only? First off the ATA is losing it's daily fee. 2. the state asso. loses money. 3 The club loses money for not charging full target price for the event but rather practice price.

    I spoke to our state delegate and was told he would bring this up at the meeting in Sparta as it is a common mistake. I have not heard back as to what happened but would like to see how you feel about this before I hear the dicision from Sparta.

    I can understand not allowing if I played options. I think if this were a problem that occured with an indivdual over and over it would be a problem but for a guy that goes to events and shoots everything and forgets to pay once in every 10 or so years what's the big problem?

    PS this has happen to some of the best shooters out there and it affects your HAL and HOA average at a big shoot. Thanks for your help. BK

    Sorry BigM, I finished 50 of my 100, but know shooters that have been disqualified after shooting their 100.
     
  2. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you tried to enter after the event was closed.. your words...
     
  3. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Rules are made to follow, not change when you fail to follow them.
     
  4. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    I must be missing something here?

    I have been shooting ATA for only 6 years. I have never been able to shoot targets until I pay for them.

    Where or what clubs or events let you shoot registered before you pay for them?

    Not trying to be a smarty at all, just curious.

    What am I missing?
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    391...

    People can pre-squad thus securing their squad and position, but the event's targets don't become registered ATA targets until the shooter has been "cashiered".

    If a shooter shoots the event targets without being cashiered and the event is closed when the shooter attempts to pay, then that shooter just shot some expensive practice targets. If the event has not closed, then the shoot management may at it's discretion allow the shooter to register those targets as "targets only" and forfeiting all claims to any trophies and/or monies.

    Curt
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Its sounds liike there was a lack of communication someplace along the line ... Having been involved with running shoots, anytime an event has been declared closed, there are no more entries allowed ... I seriously doubt you will find many Top Guns getting put in a situation where their HOA, or HAA would be effected by them not signing up on time ... If your entry would of been allowed it would not of been fair to those who made sure to make it on time ... Technically, if your not paid, your not registered anyway so your scores should not be allowed ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    I shot on a squad on bank 8 at the PA Grand with an ATA official named "Tom". As we were taking the line he reached into his shooting jacket and withdrew the white slip of paper from squadding. "Good lord" he said, "I didn't pay, and will be disqualified if I don't". Barb asked for his card and offered to run down and pay for him; but he said the rules require that he do it himself. "Go ahead and shoot", he said, "I'll have to make up this first trap, later", and he went to pay, then returned to the squad and shot the other three traps with us.

    Those are the rules, and they're for everybody, even the big shots.
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    I was allowed to shoot targets only after shooting the first 100 of Mondays singles not being paid up. No options, trophys, nothing, just registered targets.
     
  9. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    so how do you have a place on the squad if not cashiered? I know all about pre-squad and all that, but your name won't be on the scoresheet that the puller has unless you are paid
     
  10. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    This year, at two State shoots I shot without paying first on three different occasions. There is usually only one cashier and the line goes extremely slowly. On each of these occasions, I classified, squadded and was waiting in the cashier line for 15-30 minutes when my squad was called to the line. In these two shoots the early squads never fill up so you could be on squad 22 and be one of the first called to the line.

    In each case I returned immediately after shooting the event and paid my fees. There was no issue, but on one of the occasions I was called back to the cashier three times because different people thought I had not paid. If my scores were disqualified because of that, I'd have been really angry.

    At the PA State shoot, things go much quicker and I've never run into this problem there.
     
  11. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    As my old Marine Iwo Jima vet buddy used to say, What makes you special?......Not a GD thing. LOL
     
  12. steele

    steele TS Member

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    The rules DON"T apply to everyone!!! Several years ago at Elysburg, I was on a last squad of singles which ended at 12:50. We experienced trap problems & were running about 1/2 hour behind. Realizing I hadn't paid for the next event, a handicap, I ran to the cashiers line, only to be told it was 1:05, & the cutoff was 1:00. I whined & bitched a little, but, RULES ARE RULES, I was told. The very next day, the cutoff for doubles was 2:00. About 3:50, an annoucement was made, that the cutoff for doubles has been extended to 4:00. I was told that a hi-profile female shooter had just arrived, & wanted to shoot, so the shoot management extended the cutoff time for her pleasure. I about blew up. I ranted & bitched to everyone that would listen. I was told in no uncertain terms, "THE SHOOT MANAGEMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO MODIFY THE SHOOT WHENEVER & HOWEVER THEY WISH" End of story.
    Butch from Pgh
     
  13. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    At many big shoots (the Grand being one of them) there are no names on the scoresheet that are checked against who shows up to shoot. At the Grand you don't even write your name on the scoresheet when you do shoot. As squad leader I always make sure the scoresheet has the correct event # and squad #, because once it gets back to the scoring office the scores will be entered based on that. It's quite easy to shoot without paying (both unintentionally or intentionally). I've heard stories that people will do that at the Grand, just sit around and wait for a partial squad to take the line and fill in the empty post. Shoot free targets and go home.

    Scott
     
  14. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Curt for the info.

    Sam


    I guess at huemungus events like the grand, you would absolutely have to have cut offs etc.

    But at the ATA shoots I have been to, they will take any comers as long as the event is going.

    Squad with one person up to five, doesn't matter.
     
  15. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    The day after this happened to me it happened to another shooter. He had pre-squaded the first day and went to pay all the events for the shoot only to be told that the computer was not taking his doubles for the Sunday event and he would have to come back at a later time and pay that one last event. Needless to say he forgot to pay and was disqualified. It dose happen more often than you might think. My squad now asks if we have all paid before we take the line.
     
  16. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    Interesting Conversation :
    At the most recent 2011 grand american. arrived Wednesday AM at 8:30 AM, I was presquaded for every event of preliminary week. At 9:10 am I attempted to pay for Event 1 thru 3. I was told Squad 80 of event 1 was on the board. I was squad 91. Approx. So with there knowledge on what squad was up. I chose not to pay for Event 1, Feeling guilty , I went to the bank to apologize to my squad members. To find no squad yet and squad 30 shooting. I went back & registered. Class A Champ 100.

    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  17. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Bernie K,

    Sorry to see this happen to anyone but rules are rules.

    zzt,

    If the 2 state shoot officials let you cashier after you shot targets @ a state shoot then they didn't do their job. They also did a disservice to the other competitors who followed the rules.

    Would be interesting to know which 2 states.
     
  18. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested to see what "V10's" opinion is on this subject. :D
     
  19. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Don't get smart, Matt.
     
  20. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    LMAO....You know i had to do that.
     
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