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factory shells at the grand, who loses

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by dverna, Mar 9, 2010.

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  1. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    ks5

    That dog won't hunt.

    There are plenty of local shoots, Zone shoots, State Shoots and Satellite Grands for a family to enjoy if they want to play.

    Not going to the Grand will not result in our youth becoming gang members.

    Until I know differently, I assume the ATA is doing this to generate needed cash. If they cannot meet expenses, there will be no ATA and no Grand. I would rather have a Grand, even if only 1500 people attend, than to see it gone.

    If the ATA is spending money like a drunken sailor, then the need for cash should be questioned.

    We either trust the people running it, work to change things, put up with "them" and have fun, or leave.

    Don Verna
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Nobody loses!

    If a person cannot afford to shoot new ammo once a year then maybe, just maybe a large shoot like the Grand is truly not for them anyway. There were a number of things I was unable to do because of economics, this is not different.

    Like dverna stated, there are plenty of other shoots to take your children to so they won't become a drug user/dealer! BTW - dumbass analogy!!

    Curt
     
  3. K80433SC

    K80433SC Member

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    Funny - no matter how you slice it /dice it, it always comes back to the SAME thing.......

    ......the "well off" snub their noses at the rest of the shooting community, and call us complainers for wanting a solution that just "might" benfit the organization as a whole - not just at the 2010 Grand American, but for the future of the sport.

    Telling me to STAY HOME and shoot the local club shoots is about as primitive a mindset as I've ever heard by the wealthy that post here on TS.com

    Enjoy it while you can. This game WILL die ; it is only a matter of time.

    As I posted to another thread, class warfare will only hasten its demise.
     
  4. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    "If a person cannot afford to shoot new ammo once a year then maybe, just maybe a large shoot like the Grand is truly not for them anyway."

    I've seen this same piss poor attitude repeated time and time again in all these threads about factory shells at the Grand. As someone mentioned in a different thread, trapshooting and the ATA are in their death thoes. It will take a couple decades, but eventually the sport will die, and it will be in part due to the "have's" in the sport not giving a shit about the "have not's" that make up a large % of the shooting base.

    ~Michael
     
  5. seeapair

    seeapair TS Member

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    It would seem to me that we need every shooter we can get to attend the Grand. This new rule is going to discourage shooters or cut back on the events they enter.What difference does it make whether a person shoots his own ammo ? I will probably still attend but will limit my 16 yard entrys if forced to shoot thier ammunition . Do any of these ATA executives have any common sense left?? Maybe it's time to elect some new delegates.
     
  6. Ken Brandt

    Ken Brandt Active Member

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    The fact you have to shoot new shells will not have very much effect on attendance. The fact you have to shoot 4 event's to even qualify is going to keep more people away. jmho

    Ken
     
  7. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    First off, Thanks to the folks that gave/put-up the money, Really THANK YOU, I know I won’t see a dime of it…

    IF your going to shoot for $100K it should be from the 27 and new shells, one brand AA, Rems, what ever…


    Kids will only shoot when everything is paid for, "MOST" will not work one day at the range or do anything to help out. The idea of getting kids to shoot is good, BUT, if they are not going to stay with-it, why spend the time and money. My 2.5cents go after the people that used to shoot, the ones that had to stop because of taking care of a family-business. They are the ones that now have the income and time to shoot.. as in ME....GRUBBY
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Wanna take a bet now that the vast majority, or maybe all, shooting off for that $100,000 will be under-handicapped so-called "pros"? If you wanna see Harlan, Kay, Rick, Ray, Leo and a few un-named others in a shootoff spend your money on new shells and head to Sparta.

    The rest of us are smart enough to recognize a sucker bet when we see one. We also realize the shooters in that shootoff always shoot new stuff anyway, whether they pay for it or not, so the average, everyday ATA shooter gets stiffed again!!
     
  9. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Most of us can afford anything, if we want it badly enough. We do without in other areas.

    Some can afford everything they want. Not many in this "class".

    Many believe they should have many nice things/activities even if those wants are not affordable. This is the biggest "class" and the reason our country is in trouble.

    Catering to the biggest class is not where we will grow Trap shooting. These folks wind up with too many toys they cannot afford. I would put most of the whiners on this topic here.

    The people who love to shoot are going to find a way and they are one market. The other market is people who can afford to shoot.

    Investing in the young is OK but it is a long term investment. Until they are 40+ years old, they will not be able to afford the sport unless their daddy keeps paying, they become successful at a young age, or they are born to wealth.

    Just my $.02

    Don Verna
     
  10. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

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    The Grand is like Disneyland to a teen...only cheaper. There is nothing like the Grand in any other amateur sport. Any other event of this size and type is much more expensive and unattainable by our gang-members-in-waiting...like golf for example. It is very hard to gain credibility complaining about catastrophic once-a-year shell costs when the average shooter spends considerable money on a shotgun and other gizmos and accessories (a pair of Oakley's for shooting, the preferred brand of our drive-by trainees, cost as much if not more). I would buy the argument if 75%-80% of our apparently impoverished trapshooters used single shot JC Higgins bolt action guns and we could all witness the death of our sport and the corruption of our youth on any given weekend at the club. Nice try though.
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Most of the guys I shoot with have never been to a Grand (including me) but we all dream about it. The cost of ammo is not what keeps us from making the trip and in fact if I were to somehow line up a trip like that , I would want to use the very best ammo I could get my hands on which in my mind would be factory STS/N27.

    I don't believe for a second that the incremental cost of factory ammo over reloads would be a significant factor in wether a person could make a trip like this.
     
  12. colonel klink

    colonel klink Active Member

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    I'm kinda lost on why the Factory Ammo thing is playing big for some on here.
    If you shot the Grand in Vandalia---you used Factory Ammo. Nobody seemed too concerned about it then so why is it such a sticking point to some now.
    You can't really use cost as the excuse because if you went to the Grand the couple extra bucks for ammo plays small compared to the overall cost.
    Or is this just another "lets hate Sparta" rant. Colonel
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Wolfram, very true. You do have to get your fanny to one Grand at least. It will not be your last, believe me. I remember how difficult it was many years ago with a young family, work, etc. Every trapshooters owes it to himself to make at least one Grand. Good luck, shoot in good health, Bob
     
  14. rodbuster

    rodbuster TS Member

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    I agree with what you are saying ks5shooter. As an Illinois resident and taxpayer, I think the Grand should be accesible to everyone who wants to go. Nobody should be told to stay home because of money problems, with having to shoot new shells. I remember when they were building Sparta, I thought that it was great that my tax money was going toward the shooting sports! I never thought that people would be told to stay home, and not to come to Sparta. If this is the attitude of the "elite" of the trapshooting community, it is not too hard to see why attendance is declining.
     
  15. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Please go the U.S. Masters and tell them that your 14 yr old deserves to play and compete because "it just ain't right that he can't or can't affored it".

    Tell the 1,000's of kids that never get to "Disneyworld" how under achieving they are because they are to poor to go.

    If your I can't have any then it must be bad attitude is pure BS.

    Don
     
  16. Em_One

    Em_One TS Member

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    Colonel Klink is right on.. Nobody seemed to care when new shells were required at Vandalia. Now that the same is required at Sparta it's the end of the world. Everybody complained how Sparta was so different from Vandalia, and finally the ATA does something that makes it JUST LIKE VANDALIA for the whiners - and still no one is happy. Or is it just a Sparta bash?

    When you give $100,000 you can dictate how it's spent..until then.......
     
  17. rodbuster

    rodbuster TS Member

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    I don't think the topic was the U.S.Masters or Disneyworld. If you want to talk about them, you should start another thread.
     
  18. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    Well, the difference between the price of box of AAs and STSs at places like Wal-Mart, Gander Mnt, etc now vs when the Grand was at Vandalia is what, close to double right? AAs were $4.50 a box when I started shooting, now the cheapest I've seen them is $77 a flat at Dawson's. They're $8.50 to $8.99 at any local store. I know AAs and STSs are more than double what my reloads cost. How many targets does the average shooter shoot at the Grand? 500? 1000? 1500? The extra cost for me over the course of 1500 targerts would be at least $240.

    The arguement really isn't about the Grand and factory shells though. It's about a sanctioning body's attitude and priorities, and not discouraging participation in its events at any level, whether it be at the local club or at the Grand. With the economy the way it is, and the ATA requiring new shells at the Grand, that tells me their priorities are revenue off those shell sales and that $100,000. Their priorities are not their members, and throwing as many targets and getting as many shooters there as possible.

    From 2003 through 2009, the number of registered targets shot has dropped by nearly 25%. Number of active shooters has dropped by 17%. Those numbers are going to continue to decline because of the economy, and aging shooting base. They're also going to continue to decline if the ATA doesn't start making its members a priority.
     
  19. JRW

    JRW Member

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    The one to loose will be Wal-Mart. Shooters who bought shells there will need to buy at the shoot. Jerry in MI.
     
  20. HDLLLIII

    HDLLLIII Member

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    Rodbuster, I agree with you...I am an Illinois taxpayer and darn proud the Grand ended up in Sparta. None of the "elite" told anyone to stay home. Someone suggested if you can't afford the ammo, and want to complain, stay home. The Grand is accessible to anyone who wants to show up and shoot, oh shit wait a minute what do you mean I have to be an ATA member, that's got to be some sort of discrimination. Have to be an ATA and shoot new shells. I'm calling the White House we'll get this straightened out. Maybe Congress can pass a law very quickly that anyone who wants to shoot should be able to, and the taxpayers will foot the bill. Hells Bells show up and enjoy the entire expierience. ..Larry Lockhart
     
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