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F/S - Win. Super X Model 1 - Engraved with Extras

Discussion in 'For Sale- Members only' started by eightbore, Dec 7, 2009.

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  1. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Is this gun in the recognized serial number range for factory pigeons? Was it originally a product of Hurst's shop?
     
  2. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    "Is this gun in the recognized serial number range for factory pigeons? Was it originally a product of Hurst's shop? "

    Who knows...I can't read the serial number.

    I do know that engraved trigger guards are not factory.
     
  3. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    I have owned both the standard as well as teh gold pigeon. neither had an engraved trigger guard and both had special serial numbers. The Super pigeon had and SP designation after the serial number and they all had a suffix before the serial number. two letters but memory has not served me well. Lore has it that the pigeon grade is the rarer of the two as they only made about 60 of the projected run of 100 and they made the full run off the Super pigeons. I thought Ken hurt worked at the plant in Virginia where they were all engraved? The guns were NOT engraved by Winchester at any Winchester plant. The lot was sent out to an outfit in Virginia. I used to have copys of all that stuff but I tossed it long since. Perhaps Ken would elaborate? I suspect if he had worked at the plant that did the initial engraving he would have had more knowlage about this mans gun then what has been imparted?

    As far as Ken working at teh plant I suspect that was speculation ( Informed speculation perhaps) on the seller of the SP that I owned. Jeff
     
  4. pheasantsgalore

    pheasantsgalore Active Member

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    Very nice !!........Rob G.
     
  5. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    The wood is after market that may have copyed a Winchester stock but the checkering is totally diffrent! Nicer then the factory stuff if you ask me. The Super Pigeon and the pigeon only had trap/skeet wood withthe trap and skeet checkering pattern. I like the three diamonds on the bottom of the forarm and the checkering in the finger groove where original Winchester wood has none. This is not a factory gun but it is nicely done and like the model 31 that is for sale on this site, Most likely will not bring the cost to have the work done. Good luck with your sale. Whoever built this gun up did a nice job. I suspect it was built to a man's personal taste while trying to stay true to the 12-5 engraving pattern. COULD this gun have been done as a custom job through Winchester? Anything is possible. Most guys that are going to do it "MY WAY" use outside engravers and wood makers. The wood in this case certainly is not a factory checkering pattern. Jeff
     
  6. amboy49

    amboy49 Well-Known Member

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    I think I missed the sales price ?
     
  7. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    nicely done, need to try and research that signature though...
     
  8. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    HI Jim - I'm sorry....that's right, we did e-mail back and forth a bit about this gun.

    I'm afraid that I rather agree with SuperXJeff....not one of the 48 factory Pigeons made (Jeff...that's the number I hear bandied about, but who actually knows, eh), but it is an extremely well done and beautiful gun.

    Ken did not work in the factory that did the Win SX-1 Pigeon and SP engraving...it was actually his company (and when my brain resets I'll remember the name).

    The fact that Pauline was able to reproduce the SX-1 12-5 pattern is no surprise, she was a Win Custom Shop engraver. But no, I have never heard of a factor Pigeon being signed and they did all have a different serial number prefix (and when I get home and look I'll remember what the hell that is also...this memory is getting pretty creaky.

    That's not a factory fore end checkering pattern and I have no doubt its more comfortable than an original...on my project gun we changed the fore end dimensions just a bit with that result also.

    You can't beat Ken Hurst for touching up the engraving nor Ernest Marlette for the best polishing and bluing job you can get.

    It's a fabulous gun and good luck with your auction.
     
  9. sx1skeet

    sx1skeet TS Member

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    Nice gun
     
  10. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    That is the attitude I would have were I you Jim. The gun is nice and there are far worse things to invest/enjoy then well done engraved shotguns. Good luck friend! P.S That damn baron23 has the most beautiful Sx-1 on the planet and it is totally aftermarket. It's So well done if he ever tried to sell it there would be guys all over the country with blisters on their index finger from punching the " Buy it Now Button!" Jeff
     
  11. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Jim - Doc says no more 12 ga? Please keep it confidential if you wish, but I do offer my sincere hopes is nothing too serious or harmful.

    And thanks to you and Jeff re: my project gun...yep, complete after market and guys may have blisters from the Buy Now button, but I bet I will never be able to get the money I sunk into it back out. If you don't do gun upgrades because you love the craft and the guns, then my suggestion is don't do it at all.
     
  12. sx1skeet

    sx1skeet TS Member

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    Guys I ask Pauline about this gun her is her reply.

    Hi Matt,
    It looks like my engraving from what little I can see but other things about it don't. That probably explains the "engraving restoration" by Hurst. I did not do this in the factory.
     
  13. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, yup, Steve's Super X is a piece of work. I have been all over it with a high powered glass and find more details every time I look. I may like it but can't own it. By the way, the Model 31 you mention used to be my gun and I am entertained by the comments about it on the internet. It is quite a gun and I would buy it back for the right price. I can't remember the Pigeon Grade serial number range but have read the number somewhere. Maybe Baron 23 will refresh my memory. Pauline does not have a lot of collector information for us, unfortunately. She is making a living doing what she does, but is not a gun collector. Ken is a good friend and should do all the Super X engraving in the future since he was the factory engraver of the Super X even though he never worked at New Haven.
     
  14. sx1skeet

    sx1skeet TS Member

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    Eightbore,
    Your statement about Pauline is wrong. First off she does have a lot of info on the SX1's as I have been working with her on my book. Also Ken was not the only engraver as Pauline did some in the factory along with Jasper. So as to you saying Ken is the only one that is were you are wrong.
     
  15. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Pigeon SX-1's serial numbers are SXPXXXX. Mine is SXP0036. I have no idea if they were serialized sequentially and the only info I have was from Bob Baumgart that they only made 48 of them.

    Super Pigeons were serialized SX5P....why the 5...which looks like an S but is a 5 (S would make more sense as SX Super Pigeon) I have absolutely no idea.

    I have pics of SX5P0040 but was not able to buy the gun at the time...did the project gun instead.

    I have no idea if some P and SP grade SX-1's were engraved in the custom shop and hence by Pauline. Ken says that this was production engraving and his company had the contract to do the very limited production run of these two engraved grades....I do know that the factory documentation on my Pigeon grade gun does show Ken's company as the engraver.

    I'm sure almost any variation is possible.

    Cheers
     
  16. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jim - per your request...this is a documented factory SX-1 Pigeon, 30" full trap.


    [​IMG]


    Other side


    [​IMG]
     
  17. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    I wish my old puter hadn't taken as dump as i had a ton of neat SX-1 pics as well as my old Super pigeon and some nice custom jobs. One of these days I will take some more pics of my 8 ga and put them up.Jeff
     
  18. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    SuperX, sorry I implied that Ken was the "only" engraver of the Super X when that wasn't what I meant to imply. I'm sure that every Winchester engraver during the Super X period engraved some of them. I believe Ken's project was the post Super X production period that is mentioned in some Winchester catalogs. I'm not sure of any of the details although Steve and I have both talked to Ken about them. I'm sure Pauline has engraved a bunch of Super Xs and I would love to send her one to do a #5 pattern for me. Tell us more about your book. What is the subject? I would recommend that anyone interested in Winchesters should buy Pauline's great paperback. It is full of neat stuff.
     
  19. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    That sounds like the best plan yet good luck friend. Jeff
     
  20. sx1skeet

    sx1skeet TS Member

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    The book is called The Way it Was. I think you can find it online. The book I'm trying to wright is on Winchester Semi-Auto shotguns.
     
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