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Eye Dominance - I'm Confused (Less now)

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    For the longest time I have thought that a person puts tape - or a dot - over the lens on their non-dominant eye to maintain the sight picture with the dominant eye. I've tried it (right handed, right eye dominant, dot on left eye). In a recent Shotgun SPorts article the author writes, "One solution used by both Dr. Colo and Bender is to wear a patch on the dominant eye." This seems contradictory.

    I've noticed that my scores go down significantly when shooting at night after being up and active since 4am. Now I'm wondering if I had been occluding the wrong eye. Yes, the best plan would be to just not shoot when I'm bushed, but sometimes that isn't an option.

    So, have I been wrong in interpreting the placement of the occluder? SHould it be over the dominant eye?

    Larry J. Frieders
    Grandpa's Arms, Inc.
    340 Marshall Ave #100 | Aurora, IL 60506 |
    Monday through Friday, 9am to 5pm |
    Office: 630.859.0333 Cell: 630.992.7513 FAX: 630.859.0114
     
  2. trw

    trw Member

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    I have not read the article, but would assume there is a 'non' that got edited by mistake or left out.

    You cannot hit squat using the wrong eye. Wear the patch over the 'off eye' if you wish to hit anything.
     
  3. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    When you use the terms "On Shoulder Eye and Off Shoulder Eye" instead of dominate or non dominate we know exactly what you mean. I am right eye dominate and a right handed shooter but occasionally I can and Do crossfire when my left eye locks on the target and takes over. I wear a tape patch on my left lens when bird hunting and carry a left lens with the patch in my shell bag when trapshooting just in case. Dr. Rich Colo is an expert in his field and sometimes contributes to TS.Com. I read the article and the context of the confusing sentence is that he said when the dominance switches to the wrong ie. Off Shoulder eye you get problems.
     
  4. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    Hope this helps. I have not read the article either but have read plenty of others and suffer from the problem sometimes.

    If you are right handed and right eye dominant there is no trouble. The guide eye is "looking" over the barrel at the target. If you are righthanded and your doninant eye is the left eye, then you are not "looking" over the barrel, but down the left side of the barrel. In this case, tape the LEFT eye and in effect it turns off that eye dominence and puts the right eye back dominant and over the barrel. I strongly suggest you get someone to tape your eye that knows what he is doing. There is more to it than just sticking tape on glasses. Dennis DeVall or David Deberry are the best, I think, and for sure give an explination of how it should work in terms that you can understand, see, and make sense while you are going through the taping process. The spot needs to be the size of the pupil and centered in the field of vision to keep the field of vision and correct the dominence. It takes a few minutes to do it correctly.
     
  5. Wass

    Wass Member

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    Most folks that I know only wear a patch/dot/tape if they are "cross eye dominant". That means if you are a right handed shooter, but left eye dominant, or a left handed shooter, but right eye dominant. In either of those two cases, you would wear your patch/dot/tape over your dominant eye in order to continue shooting with the "handedness" you prefer.

    The other option is to switch from right hand to left hand or left hand to right hand and match your eye dominance with your hand dominance.

    There are some shooters that have problems with cross eye dominance intermittently (normally, the eye dominance matches the hand dominance, but occasionally it can switch at inappropriate times). These shooters sometimes wear a patch on their non dominant eye to ensure it doesn't switch on them in the middle of a shot.

    Wass
     
  6. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "For most people, shotgunning is easier and more effective with both eyes open. Binocular vision facilitates the estimation of distance speed and angle, and helps one to get the full benefits of hand-to-eye coordination (if you doubt it, try catching a ball with one eye shut). There are other benefits to binocular vision such as reduced tension and fatigue. However, do not believe those who tell you simplistically that everyone should shoot with both eyes open. It is just not that simple (which condemns more than a few shooting tomes to the pyre): the critical consideration is eye dominance.

    It is a curiosity of the binocular system of human vision (at least in most adult males) that one eye tends to control pointing. If a finger were pointed at a distant object, there would be a straight line relationship from object to finger to eye. The pointing eye, whichever it may be, is called the dominant or master eye. The majority of adult men have eye dominance which matches their handedness and, once this is confirmed, are well advised to shoot with both eyes open. There are other possibilities. Some may be cross-dominant (e.g., right-handed with a left master); a few have central vision (neither eye dominating); and others may be predominantly but not fully dominant in one eye. For those shooting a standard gun who fall into one of these categories, the best advice is usually to shut or squint one eye. In women and children, absolute dominance in the eye overlooking the breech is the exception, and one-eyed shooting is often the simplest remedy too.

    Eye dominance is an intriguing phenomenon in which biological, environmental and experiential factors appear to play a role. Eye dominance in boys typically becomes more absolute with advancing years. In middle-aged men, however, it may become less absolute. It may be affected by training (disciplining oneself to sustain focus on the bird and ignore any “ghost” image), but results are unpredictable. It is (largely) unrelated to visual acuity (one can have poor vision in one eye yet it can still be more dominant as far as the control of pointing is concerned). It can vary in the same individual. It can be disturbed by fatigue, ill-health, staring at computer screens, long-distance driving and low light levels. It is not just a physical phenomenon, but a mental one as well. Having considered some of the scientific literature while researching this book, it appears that gunfitters may have a more profound understanding of eye dominance than anyone else (especially with regard to sex and age differences).

    The diagnosis of eye dominance certainly involves far more than a simple – and potentially inaccurate – observation that an individual is right or left eye dominant (any testing method that only gives “either/or” results is worthless). It is common, for example, to find a male client who has what might be called “pseudo-dominance”, i.e., when tested, one eye appears to be almost – but not quite fully – dominant. Such a condition is easily overlooked by an inexperienced or sloppy instructor (typically being misdiagnosed as full dominance). However, the effects on shooting can be profound. Typically, there will be many inexplicable misses on quartering and crossing targets where the lead does not favor the dominance.

    It is not uncommon, moreover, for shooters to be wrongly advised to switch shoulders having been told they were cross-dominant, when in fact their dominance in the opposite eye was not absolute (much better and simpler advice would have been to stick to the “strong” shoulder and squint an eye). All of which leads me to conclude that the precise diagnosis of a client’s eye dominance is one of the most vital considerations in shooting instruction. One need make no apologies for dealing with it in the most scrupulous manner….
    A right-hander with a left master eye (or a left-hander with a right master eye) has a number of options. One of the easiest, in the former case, is to shoot from the right shoulder but closing or dimming the left eye prior to firing. Rather than keeping the eye shut throughout the pickup, swing and mount, it will be better for most sporting and game shots to dim the eye as the gun comes up to the shoulder. This way one gets some of the benefits of binocular vision and has an increased field of view during the critical pickup phase. It is a definite mistake to dim the eye only at the last moment as this may be visually confusing.

    The offending eye may be covered with a patch (although instructors who inflict this on novices should try it themselves), or if the student wears spectacles, a block to vision may be placed over the appropriate lens. This need not be a full-sized patch but may be a much smaller block, refined so that it is no more than a half inch across. One may use electrician’s tape, a smudge of Vaseline, chapstick, typing correction fluid or a Magic Dot on the lens to achieve this (once the position and size are confirmed, glasses may be permanently and neatly modified by sandblasting in an optical workshop)….

    Kay Ohye, the famous trap shot, developed a “blinder” to be attached to the rib near the muzzles of over-and-unders. It has subsequently been manufactured by several firms. Another clever device consists of a U-shaped channel with a fluorescent sight at one end. This may be attached to the barrel and when in place, the brightly-coloured insert can only be seen by the eye looking along the rib. A similar effect may be achieved by using the thumb on the forend to block the vision of the eye not looking down the rib (as practiced by both Churchill and Barry Simpson)….

    A traditional remedy for those whose master eye and handedness do not correspond, is to learn to shoot from the left (or weak) shoulder with or without a suitably adapted (cast-off changed to cast-on triggers reshaped) gun. I do not usually favour this course (though it is sometimes appropriate). The advantage of binocular vision may be outweighed by the awkwardness of the manoeuvre. It is my experience that few of those who are forced to take this route develop into really first class shots (although many one-eyed shots, beating the odds, do)….

    Finally beware: not everyone who shoots as their eye dominance – as tested – might suggest. Some may be able to shoot well with both eyes open, even though initial testing without a gun indicates a dominance problem. Some will have inconsistent eye dominance (my own normally right-eyed dominance fades and can even switch when I get tired). Some will have a master eye significantly weaker than the other as far as visual acuity is concerned. Inability to focus can undermine eye dominance. (Sometimes those with contact lenses who have a slight eye dominance problem, may be advised to shoot with the left lens removed.) Some people’s eye dominance is affected by the choice of gun. Short guns and side-by-sides tend to cause more problems than the more pointable over-and-unders. Changing to longer barrels can help someone with a mild eye-dominance problem…."

    The Shotgun, a Shooting Instructor’s Handbook, Michael Yardley, copyright 2001, Safari Press
     
  7. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    Grandpa, I think you are getting mixed up on terminology. Your main reason to use a patch is when your dominant eye is not your sighting eye, and it tries to take over. Never patch the eye next to the stock of the gun. It is logical. Good to question solutions that do not seem logical. Mark
     
  8. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    Granspasarms,

    Here is what you have to do to understand eye dominance and cross eye dominance.

    1) do the eye dominance test!There are several, one is on the XDSolution web, above.
    2)Find which eye is dominate
    3)If the dominate eye is on the side on which you mount the gun, that means you are Ok.
    4) if the dominate eye is on the other side of the shoulder on which you used to mount the gun, then you are eye cross dominate.

    In shooting the handedness and the eye dominance needs to be on the same side.

    If you are cross dominate , the dominate eye is on the other side of your handedness, then you need to block your dominate eye in order to keep your handedness!

    There are several blockers, tapes dots, patches but all of these cut the binocular vision to monocular vision( one eyed shooting)

    The only one that preserves the binocular vision( two eyed shooting) is the XDS

    You get info about the XDS on the above website.
     
  9. warren

    warren Member

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    Go to a Kiner Clinic and all your questions will be answered not necessarily sloved but at least you will know what is going on.

    warren
     
  10. cec

    cec TS Member

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    Here's a solution that has helped many ... click on the above web site.
     
  11. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

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    I bought these from Amazon for about $5 for 1000 of them, instead of $20 for 35 Magic Dots. Translucent 3/4" scotch tape is even cheaper, and also works well. Mark

    oregunner_2008_030376.jpg
     
  12. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    For those who can't support dots,tapes on the glasses and want to shoot with two rested eyes, the XDS is the answer.
     
  13. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    I read te article again and discovered that the point is shifting dominance as a result of fatigue, not dominance itself. Some coaches suggest occluding the non-dominant eye when there is a clear case where the off-shoulder eye dominates.

    This article is about how eye fatigue can allow dominance to shift (when a shooters game suddenly falls apart). By occluding the dominant eye, Bender is suggesting a method for maintaining the dominance you started with instead of having it suddenly shft because of fatigued eyes. It seems to be a sort of balancing technique that helps the shooter continue using BOTH eyes rather than suffer misses when the usually non-dominant eye from taking over when the dominant eye gets tried from over use.

    Personally, I have this experience shooting after a "long day". Scores that suddenly drop might well be the eye fatigue instead of overall or tiredness.

    Larry
     
  14. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    GrandpasArms.

    You are correct. eye fatigue can do a lot of harm to your score and sometimes not even be aware of it.

    Cutting your vision to one eyed shooting by placing a tape on the glasses can contribute to the "on eye"( shooting eye) fatigue as well.

    Using both eyes, the visual focus is shared between them and the eyes fatigue is not so relevant unless the shooting eye is wicker than the off eye.

    In this case the off eye takes over known as cross firing.
     
  15. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Larry,

    Read the article and your re-interpretation seems correct. They say, "This constant exertion can stress your eye muscles to the extent that your eye dominance can shift during the course of a round."

    You may start out with on-gun eye dominance which can shift to the off-gun eye with fatigue. More from the article: "The scariest thing about eye fatigue is that it can create an environment where cross firing can occur," Todd said. "The other eye can take over, and that can cause cross firing."

    More from the article:

    "In effect, the Triple A shooter will identify the target with his eyes first, move the gun to it and pull the trigger.

    The C shooter does it differently. Instead of first visually establishing the target, they move the gun toward the target without really seeing a clear and whole target. It’s hands first instead of eyes first. Suddenly, the C shooter is looking at the gap between the target and the muzzle. That gap, also known as lead, puts more wear and tear on the eye muscles than focusing strictly on the target. Worse, as the C shooter continues to focus on the gap, their perceived lead will begin to change as fatigue deepens – potentially causing a shift eye dominance."

    I find this interesting after having just had a conversation with a shooter who looks ahead of the target.

    Moral of the story is to take the time to see the target well before moving the gun. Something to check in my own shooting and to relay on to my son.

    Joe
     
  16. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    There is one final point that seems to tie all this together, "...you'll eventually hear...that humans are natural-born pointers...our instincts dictate that if we point at an object we're likely to hit it with a projectile such as a stone, arrow or bullet. This uncanny pointing ability is innate; from day one, we have been natural-born predators."

    I have often wondered how anyone is able to hit any moving target given all of the variables that come into play with each shot; gun fit, ammo speed, gun weight, trigger, grips, stance, weather, lighting, backgrounds, physical health, and all of the pieces associated with vision. The word INNATE sums it up for me.

    If we in fact have an innate ability to hit what we point at, failure top do it is because we throw obstacles in the way - many of which are housed in that space between the ears.

    Larry
     
  17. targetchip

    targetchip Banned User Banned

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    Larry, you are right! Sometimes when we get an object close to our eyes many " innate" things don't work as suppose to.

    Eye dominance is specific for shooting and other "aiming" activities!

    If you get cross dominance you have to fight it by any means,otherwise you are out of the game!
     
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