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Exactly why did the ATA change the Year?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JBrooks, Jul 17, 2008.

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  1. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    In that the other thread has gotten so long that I thought this question my get lost in the train wreck, so does anyone know?

    While I am in a warm climate where we shoot all year, I can see that guys in colder climates would have more challenges getting minimum targets. Also, I can see how clubs who do throw targets in September & October might suffer from people not wanting to shoot after the "Main Event" of the sport is over.

    So, what is the benefit to the shooters/members/clubs for this change, which the ATA felt compelled to make, that I am missing?
     
  2. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    From what I've read online it had something to do with encouraging more shooters to attend fall shoots like the North East Grand, and additional time to compete for All American points. I don't recall ever seeing a 100% straight and clear answer on the subject from the ATA though.

    ~Michael
     
  3. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    To ease the burden on the ladies in the main office..........Roger
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    What burden?
     
  5. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    What burden?

    twice I agree with brooks
     
  6. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Jim turn On your PM I have a question for you.
     
  7. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Because they could and they knew it would urinate a few on TS.com and that now they get to sit back and read all the diatribes of wonderment the topic of changing the target year has caused but what they are getting as a freebie bonus is knowing that CalvinMD's local grocery store doesn't carry beer nutz anymore and he is ticked about it.

    Also they did it because they could and did because they felt the need to ... do man up and deal with it, it aint about just the person but its about the entire ATA.
     
  8. SR1

    SR1 TS Member

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    I just hope they make the best choice that will benifit the most shooters seeing how not everyone will be happy no matter what. I was told they changed it to help some of the smaller clubs but I,m just a small ant in a big anthill so what do I know lol.
     
  9. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    I would think the Burden is called YOUR JOB
     
  10. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    7-1/2's or 8's?

    Curt
     
  11. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    I think the board of directors have been asking themselves the same question and that is why it will likely be reversed.

    Bob
     
  12. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    So what is everyone thinking of having for lunch today? If this continues at all we can all have some roasted dead horse, should be tender meat after all of this beating it is taking.
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Newbius,

    You are like TS.coms pet duck. You won't be killed and eaten but all you really do is crap on the sidewalk.
     
  14. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Sidewalk? I'm not from that part of town ... ya know even a better response should be ... AFLAC
     
  15. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    Well, if they're going to change the year back to 9-1 to 8-31, it sure as hell would be nice if they'd give us a little more heads up than two weeks before the target year ends!

    ~Michael
     
  16. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    Hey, I agree but relieving the burden is the reason I was given.....Roger
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Ertz, If I may amplify on your post a bit, here's a bit more detail about what I said.

    The target year is a By-Law item, so it requires two-week notice sent to the delegates and so forth. Illinois Delegate Jim Matteson has informed many of us that he will offer an amendment to undo what was done last year, return the target year to September-to-August because so many don't like what has been done. I noted that last year's vote was unanimous to make the change and expressed my own certainly that the BOD at the 2007 Annual Meeting thought that people _would_ like it and that's why they voted that way.

    Thus I will not be making a motion, but rather presume I will be voting on Delegate Matteson's, and expect to vote to support the "change back" to the old system.

    The reason I voted for the change was just as Slick13 wrote:

    "From what I've read online it had something to do with encouraging more shooters to attend fall shoots like the North East Grand, and additional time to compete for All American points,"

    . . . and this is the 100% straight and clear statement of that fact he has not seen until now, with the addition that members will have an added chance to get the targets for the state team, or simply up their averages a bit in the nice fall weather we have in Minnesota in contrast to the spring, at least most years.

    My own vote was unaffected by office costs; I always have thought that there are simply costs of doing business and though the change would save money giving shooters what they want is not just far more important; it's the only consideration.

    To me this is an example of a good intention's unintended consequences. Many here - and more on the other thread - fail to see justice in anything but their own view, convinced that the other side is wrong. We'll get nowhere with that attitude; we have to see this not as right or wrong, but rather as clash of competing interests, with both sides having merit, both weakness. The task of the 2008 BOD will be to chose between those interests in a way that will lead to the greater good for the ATA and its members while realizing that some will be disappointed that their arguments did not prevail. In making his or her vote each delegate will not be accepting this as right, rejecting that as nonsense, but rather weighing the two arguments, one against the other, and being forced to choose, casting a vote.

    The arguments: first one I discussed with a Minnesota shooter on the phone a couple of days ago:

    "Midwesterners are bird hunters and that's what they want to do in the fall. But I, based on what I was lead by the ATA to believe were the rules, have made plans. I've got a chance to make the State Team, shooting at the Calf & Steer and in Missouri will give me the targets and the averages to do it. If this is changed back, the ATA and it's member clubs will lose in the fall my support, my money, my time; I'll go hunting instead."

    A competing view, also made to me recently by a Minnesota shooter:

    "I shoot in the fall to get a head start on my State Team targets requirements and to try to bring a decent average into the new year. I know that autumn's weather lets me post good scores and that spring winds and cold will drive them down, but I enjoy having a high classification at the State Shoot if for pride if nothing else. For me at least, the Grand is the psychological end of the target year, time to put 2008 away and aim for better in 2009. With a start in November I lose all that and feel I no longer have any reason to shoot in the fall and I won't.

    Another in Michigan said:

    "I run a small gun club and have long counted on the income I get in the fall to keep my head above water. My shooters tell me they "have no reason to shoot in the fall anymore" and I need them. If you change it back they will come back; if you don't, I think they actually are gone."

    You may find holes in many of the arguments above, but you really can't discount the idea that if the years is changes the ATA "is going back on its word" to the bird hunter, or the club owner who is simply relating what his shooters are telling him.

    So what's a voting member of the BOD to do? There are good arguments for both sides, and good counters to them as well, how do you choose between them?

    My present intention, based on the fact that I am told there will be a vote, is to vote to revert to the old system, not because it's the better idea - I think they are about equal - but for the following reason.

    The ATA President travels a lot (it's one of the requirements) and talks to a lot of people. Way, way more have asked me to vote to change it back than to leave it. I really think that most don't care; for example I don't care since it won't affect me at all, but if we are to keep people shooting it seems to be the best way to do that is to try to make the most members happy and I think a change back will do that. It will make some members mad too of course, but from what I've heard this year, fewer will dislike it than like it and considerations like that have to the final determiners of my vote.

    I wish this had never come up. The BOD tried to improve things but instead has ended up in a place where one group of shooters will be disappointed no matter what they do. This unforeseen outcome will not keep them from trying improvement at all since that's all they are there to do. They know that they will never make a vote that everyone will like and they just have to keep on doing their best, as they thought they were doing at least year's meeting.

    Neil
     
  18. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Neil; Thank you for your explanation.

    Don
     
  19. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Neil: Most of us "senior citizens" don't handle change very well. Fred
     
  20. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    Fred, May I expand your comment to say: Most trapshooters don't handle change very well.
     
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