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Ethics

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Sargentyork, Jul 18, 2010.

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  1. Sargentyork

    Sargentyork TS Member

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    I am the President of a small Trap club In Ohio. We recently added sporting clays to the menu.We ran into an ethics question that I would like some feed back from other shooters on. We throw a fifty target event where the course is changed every shoot we have. Last month I won this fifty bird event with a score of 49, Mind you I did not set the course or approve the targets nor did I pre shoot the course. The problem is that since I serve on the board some people think that it would be unethical to play or claim any winnings since I serve on the board of the club. What are some of your opinions. When shooting trap over the past twenty years I have always played nearly every option in every event held at the same club or any other club.
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Utter nonsense.

    Who came up with this twaddle? A disgruntled loser?
     
  3. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    All of the elected officers in my club play any and all options as they choose.
    There has never been any comment about their ethics in collecting any prize money due them.


    Eric
     
  4. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    You start off stating that you are the President of a Trap club, mention sporting clays, then end that you play the options when shooting trap. Can we assume that you are referring to a 50 target sporting clays event?

    With sporting clays if you set the targets you shoot for targets only if it is a registered NSCA event. I think that it is unethical if you used your position as President to preview and/or pre-shoot the targets. Since you did not set, approve or pre-shoot targets you were perfectly ethical.

    Oh yeah, congratulations on some great sporting clays shooting, you deserve any trophy and/or winnings.

    Jason
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A few individuals work many hours, with no compensation, at clubs so others can shoot. I believe the club workers should have the same opportunities as other shooters who do no work at the club.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. Sargentyork

    Sargentyork TS Member

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    So sorry this was a non sanctioned 50 bird program every second Weekend. I am an old trap shooter and the club has always paid the bills by throwing trap targets, but as with most trap clubs the trap has fell off and we had to adopt the clays to pay bill. I Helped build the trail that we use to set the course but had not seen a single target from any shooting station. Bottom line isn't the money it is whos right or wrong in this?
     
  7. Jerseyshooter

    Jerseyshooter TS Member

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    I think you are totally correct since you didn't set the targets. Heck, even if you set em you ought to get paid on a 49/50 score! Thats terrific!
     
  8. Lance S

    Lance S TS Member

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    No ethical breach here. If you used your position or influence to gain an unfair advantage in the competition you would have caused a breach, you did not. You will always find those that look for ways to create negative situations. You can't control others feelings and your not responsible for them. You had every right to shoot the event. Everyone had the same presentation, everyone had the same opportunity to break the targets. You did it better than anyone else. Congrats and well done. Even on a cream puff course 49 out of 50 is an amazing shoot.
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Well I have been involved in an awful lot of ATA trap shoot over the years. I have served on the target setting committee. Classification and other jobs around the various clubs.

    In trap I never seen a rule or anything in the way the shoots were set up that says if you set targets you can't win. If it is that way in SC how the he** do they ever get volunteer help to work to get ready for a shoot?

    That is BS I sure wouldn't let it worry me as a matter of fact they don't deserve your efforts never mind your ethics.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. schutzemgud

    schutzemgud TS Member

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    SargentYork,

    You are good to go. I wouldn't spend a minute on the naysayers. They didn't shoot your targets. Does this mean if you set the trap targets you can't shoot for the win and prizes? Of course not. My answer to those people would be for them to get on the board and do the work. If they are on the board and don't shoot which is way too often a problem tell them to shoot and if they win follow their own advise.

    Mike
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I'm on your side also, Sir York. Yes, it is the standing rule in SC that those that set the targets are only permitted to shoot a registered event for targets only. This is a good rule and it should be adopted for the non-registered events as you describe. So far, we've had no problems finding volunteers to set targets for Sporting events and they/he/she generally are ones that could be considered contenders......breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    True enough Bucky, but no one gets a chance to try those sporting birds over and over in the "setting up" process and then shoot for money or awards on shoot day....Bob Dodd
     
  13. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Hey back - Well, at least in our neck of the woods, there is considerable "testing the choices" by our usual manager/setter of the machines. I'd support the idea of very limited "testing" in the process if for no other reason to cut costs. And, sure, childish minds abound. Do, breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  14. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The problem with most shooting sports is they come up with rules to eliminate shooters in events rather than promote them and then they wonder what the Hell happened when they go belly up ...
    I would take my money and wave it in the face of those who are disgruntled and tell them to Kiss My Royal American Ass, if I were you ... I would also never set another target and when someone says something I would tell them why and tell them to go and set them if they want them set ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  15. GoldTrigger

    GoldTrigger Member

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    on the ehtics issue
    I see you clean
    on the great score issue
    I see you shooting super
    on the good club member issue
    I see you hard working and willing to fill offices for nothing

    wow want to join our club we neeed more like you....
    thanks for being a sportsman in my book
     
  16. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any ethics problem with you shooting the event and playing the money. What ever home turf advantage that you may have, it was earned legitimately.

    The truth of the matter is that the people running the shoot are at qite a disadvantage to the general shooter population because they are constantly dealing with doing their non paying job. I know this because I am usually one of the worker bees when it comes time for a shoot. The fact that you posted such a good score is in itself impressive considering the extra mental baggage you have to haul around and you deserve every reward the victory has to offer.

    Don't take the job so seriously that you exclude yourself from the fun. That would be the only unfair you could find yourself doing here.
     
  17. Sargentyork

    Sargentyork TS Member

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    Thanks to all of you These inputs will be addressed at our next board meeting.Bottom line I did not play the money and there for I loose for winning. But there will be changes made. You are all right thought this is the kind of deal that keeps good people from being active in the club. They may just loose the best worker they ever had over this trivial bull.
     
  18. ryanhammer

    ryanhammer TS Member

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    Would they be crying if there was no money involved? Nope. Of course, they still would not have won. I'm guessing by that score, you have practiced for years, spent thousands on equipment and shells, and a lot of time working at your club. Maybe you could politely suggest to them, that instead of whining, they could better spend that time practicing, or go open thier own club. Then they could have whatever rules they want. Good shootin', Forget them. rh
     
  19. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    I agree with everything said above . It`s your ability that got you a great score and if you played any money , you should have deseved to keep the winnings . There are whiners and sore heads in every sport .
     
  20. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Under the circumstances that you describe here I don't see any clear ethics problems, however there is another consideration that just keeps nagging at me. Let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

    Long ago and far away I was taught in Basic School that leadership is a privilege, above all else. Regardless of the circumstances, the best leaders never put themselves in a position to take anything away from their subordinates. Right is still right, and wrong is still wrong, but they never carry the same weight or consequence.

    As president of your club you are one of the 20% that do the work and keep things going, and the other 80% can certainly be ungrateful at times. However, I think the real question is what did you gain and what did you loose in this process?

    I just can't imagine that what you gained from a great score was worth the dissension? Small clubs don't give big prizes or money. Everyone that matters also already knows that you shot a great score. If it was the well deserved recognition of a great score that motivated you, it might have been done by posting your name at the top of the score sheet and then announcing the second non-officer score as monthly winner??? Just a thought?

    The reason that there are so many small failing clubs is because someone got a burr up their tail, right-or-wrong and headed out on their own. Then both clubs fail and we all loose...... Playing hard-case may make you feel good, but it's a position that requires constant elevated effort to maintain with constant diminishing returns.

    If the prize and the recognition is what is most important to you, you have no real ethics problem. If your club is more important and your ability to lead effectively is more important, another consideration may be in order, and it will serve you much better.

    I wonder where Cuban is on this?

    Just my HO,
    Kip
     
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