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Ethanol hoax and beef prices.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by halfmile, Mar 13, 2008.

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  1. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I knew the ethanol story was bs all along, and that it takes more than one gallon of petroleum to make a less efficient gallon of ethanol.

    There's more to it. Archer Daniels Midland is reaping the profits from the ethanol hoax. Of course they have their ducks in a row, with Washington in their lap via lobbyists.

    But the rest of the story is relative to beef prices. they seem ok now, but the reason is the high corn prices (because of ethanol) have made it uneconomical to produce beef.

    So a lot of it is being sold off. Sent to slaughter. Glutting the market.

    Guess what's going to happen when the cheap beef is gone and the supply is way smaller?

    The feces continues to fly through the rotary oscillator.

    HM
     
  2. nspktr1

    nspktr1 TS Member

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    The US will import over 30,000 tons of beef from China this year. As per the Beef Council.
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Using a food products to synthesize a transportation fuel is absurdity of the highest order.
     
  4. DJM

    DJM Member

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    The inevitable results of placing your faith in government instead of the free market.
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    For the last 6 months I have been preaching doom here, and many have scoffed.

    I'm not the kind of guy who just drives 2 feet in fromt of the headlights. Learned that on my first street motorcycle.

    At this point I have to go beyond doom to worse. What is happening now is not the bad part.

    Time remains to tell if the Great Depression would be worse. At least we had a manufacturing base back then. And a population that wasn't so urbanized and helpless.

    "use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without." My Dad and Grandma knew
    Those words by heart. It was how you survived.

    Yes, worse.Sorry.

    HM
     
  6. GRR

    GRR TS Member

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    Go to Feb, 2008 Popular Mechanic magazine and read the article on ethanol, it will shock you. This is the most singular government blunder that will take us into a huge recession.

    Ask your Senators how they voted on a bill to allow drilling for oil in Onwire, Pacific Ocean off Washington and California and the Gulf of Mexico. If they would have passed that bill, oil would be less than $50 a barrel.
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, I punctuate way different than Grammie.

    And while I agree with much of what he has said, .........Not all.

    I have not inherited the mantle of the exclamation point.

    HM
     
  8. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    It sure as hell made all the other feed sources jump. What a horrible mistake. All my Friends are pulling their CRP out and putting in to wheat. At 15 bucks a bushel they will be making money hand over fist for a while. It won't last. It's make hay while the sun shines attitude. BTGII
     
  9. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this year is going to be a good year for corn. The farmers I talked to say they are afraid they are going to get stuck with low price corn next fall after putting out High priced seed and fertilzer bills.
    Beef is already up. Way up. Gas reaching 4.00 a gal. The farmers you think are happy about making money hell they havn't got enough brains to organize. They are controlled by large corporations and Govt. The farmer has control of the only thing thats keeps people alive and that is food. It takes land to do it and they own it. They tried to organize several years ago and called it Co-op the very same that rips them off today. They intend to let the government take care of them by implementing subisdies. As long as the govt. can keep the farmer in turmoil among each other the deeper in debt he goes and the more he relies on the govt. I don't say the feds. which implies the federal reserve cause that is a private business. Its is only called federal reserve in name only to through off the public. Go back to 1913 when it came into being and study it.
    Most people are not quallified to vote. Not say they are stupid they are not. They just don't pay attention to what is going on in government, Federal, State, or Local so they don't really know what they are voting for unless it is affecting them imediately. People need to keep abreast of what is going on for the long term benifits. We have very smart people in govt. but they look way out ahead of the regular people so when things do happen its to late. Remember the change over to the metric system, then WTO, GTO,Nafta, All of these made sure that around the world trading are ISO certified which don't mean anything to many third world countries. They just pirate anything that they can't do legal. It is comming very close that your children are going to be working for very low wages with a 4yr degree right along side some turbin head who is his boss right here in this country. I believe it is happening now in alot of companies. Wake up America.
     
  10. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Ethonol is subsidized at 52 cents per gallon produced...money into the producer's pocket. Also the farmer that gows the crop is also subsidized. Currently approx $1.25 is subsidized into every gallon of ethonol.

    It takes 4 gals of ethonol to produce 5 gals. Not to mention the waste of water, and the soil and water contamination of all the fertilizers and bug and weed killers need for the gowth of the crops.

    I've got uncles and cousins that are crop growers and we get pretty deep into this ethonl "boon-doggle". I've printed out government estimates for them to read, and they just smile, holding another check from Uncle Sam.

    Now add the above $1.25 to a gallon of gas and see how many would buy it...NO one would.

    Doug
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Mash and read, this one is fairly accurate.

    HM
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that as soon as everyone has squeezed the energy situation for all its worth, that the new technologies will suddenly come on line. But not until billions in profits, tax credits and subsidies have lined a lot of pockets.
     
  13. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The ethanol blunder is not helping but I don't see it as the cause or trigger of the next great depression. It is possible to raise beef without corn (although they don't taste as good). The US has been importing beef from South America for quite sometime what difference does it make if some comes from China?. We also export beef and corn and wheat.... Fuel costs are significant portion of our expenses but then again most of the other countries have been paying out the nose for petrol fuel for decades and they are surviving. We may need to adjust our lifesyles but so what? Now is the time to show the world what we are made of unless of course you prefer to just sit around and whine about poor me and how it is 'their' fault.

    Where I am going with this is that if we expect the worst and only see the negative side of things that is where we will end up. Be optimistic and find solutions by viewing problems as opportunities and our future holds promise.
     
  14. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    First let me say that I think as a country we should be using our massive supply of petroleum resources within our reach. We should be drilling in ANWAR as well as the Golf and anywhere else we find oil. We should be exploring all resources including shale and coal oil that now can be extracted without even digging it up.

    BUT.

    There is more miss information about ethanol on this site then there is oil under our feet. I don’t believe that ethanol is the best way to go but some of you need to do some reading. Where the hell are you getting your information. OK myth busting time. Myth, “ If we use corn for ethanol we won’t have any corn for feed, we can’t grow enough.” Fact, only corn starch is used to make ethanol the by product of extracting the corn starch is corn meal the main product in silage used for feed. Myth, it takes more then one gallon of gas to produce one gallon of ethanol. Fact, cost to produce ethanol now about one half the cost of a gallon of gas. So you believe that an ethanol producer is spending 3.50 to make fuel he’s selling for 2.25. (do some reading) Myth, Corn, Wheat and Sugar are used to produce ethanol so shortages will cause food shortages and high prices. Fact, fermentation to extract sugar starches from Corn, Wheat and Sugar are old technology and will soon be a thing of the past. FACT, Cellulosic Ethanol is made without any production crop. It can be made from waist products that include switch grass (weeds) dried leafs on the ground, corn stock (not ears of corn), grass cuttings from your yard and every yard, park, ball field, it can be made from kelp in the ocean or the brush that the USFS picks up when clearing a forest of dangerous debris.

    Right now the average cost of E85 around the country is 30-40 percent below the price of gas. It is true that a flex fuel vehicle that burns E85 gets 20% less mileage then with gas but that’s still a big savings.

    Also there is a plant going in hear in this county that will be producing ethanol using the cellulosic process. They will be using sorghum stock only that not only is never used for feed or food but it takes about 1/3 the amount of water as corn to grow. The only reason they are using this is because we’re in the desert so switch grass is not as plentiful a trash source as the scrap from sorghum.
     
  15. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    BTW, for those of you that think we’re not raising beef. I suggest you come on down and take a look at McElhaney Cattle Company down here in Yuma. Ten years ago their average was 100,000 head at any time. Five years ago they expanded to 130,000 head. And last year they ballooned to more the 200,000 head. BEEF IT’S WHATS FOR DINNER!
     
  16. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Today Prime Rib Roast at the local market is $4.99 a pound. Sounds good to me. There is only one solution to the energy problem, and it is called nuclear power. HMB
     
  17. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    There may be a lot of misinformation regarding ethanol but you can't get around the fact that mileage drops when ethanol is mixed with gasoline. The stated mix here is 10%. I have not seen a car yet that won't get at least 10% fewer miles to the gallon on the 10% ethanol mix as compared to gasoline and most are more like 12% to 15%. If they mix in 10% ethanol, charge 10% more and the cars get 10% fewer miles to the gallon where is the savings?
     
  18. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    Little known fact: There is an oil well in ANWR. It was drilled by Chevron and immediately capped. It's a very "tight" hole.
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Let me see now. Corn being used for ethanol has caused prices to raise. Ethanol is a negative energy saving. And poorer milage.

    so our fearless leaders pay subsidies and mandate it in gas.

    "oh, I don't want to go about where there are mad people" said Alice.

    "That's Ok", said the cat, "we're all quite mad here"

    HM
     
  20. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    sammie, you need help.
     
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