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Estate hulls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by lance howard, Dec 26, 2011.

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  1. lance howard

    lance howard Member

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    I would like to know if anyone knows the manufacturer of the Estate shotshell hulls. I have been told Cheddite and Fiocci as well as that they make their own. I do know that the primers and my MX8 do not always get along. I reload a lot of them and use the Fiocci primer and I have the same problem with them as I do the factory loads. My gun has been checked out by Perazzi and it is fine. I also use the Noble and Winchester primers with no problems other than I do not shoot the Nobles when it is cold. They are allergic to cold temps. I bought 15,000 Fioccis dirt cheap so that is why I am trying to use them. Lance Howard
     
  2. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Lance... As far as I know, Estate Hulls and Federal Top Gun hulls are the same. Where they are made, I don't know. I do know, however, is that I had the same problem when shooting Estate hulls and Fiocchi primers. Sometimes they just wouldn't fire. If I cocked the gun and tried the shell again, sometimes it would fire and sometimes not. My own, unscientic conclusion is that the Fiocchi primer anvil is a harder material than most. I quit using Fiocchi primers and went to Cheddites and have yet to have a problem in my MX3. It doesn't matter how cheap you got the primers if they don't go off every time, especially when you are shooting registered targets..... Do you have any problems with any other primer in the Estate hulls with your TM? If not, there is your obvious answer: It's the primers..... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  3. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    All primers have hard (steel) anvils. The difference is in cap materiel. Some are brass (i.e. Fed., Win., Rem., & CCI), others are steel. Guns with strikers or angled firing pins sometimes have issues with steel capped primers. Most hammered guns with in-line firing pins do not. Not all the brands of steel caps are of equal hardness. My experience is Fiocchi is hardest followed by Nobel and then Cheddite.

    I have an Alfermann, a TM-1, a 90-T, a BT-99, a Rem. 31TC, an 870, an 1100, an A303 and a Citori. None of these guns has ever had an issue with any of the above mentioned primers in a minimum of 25k loads each.

    Unfortunately, if you have a gun with issues you have three choices, live with it, buy the brass capped primers or send the gun down the road.

    Buz
     
  4. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    My understanding is that currently Estate shotgun shells are made by Federal, I assume at their plant in Anoka, Minnesota.

    John C. Saubak
     
  5. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Old Cowboy is right. Jack
     
  6. 4th. down

    4th. down Active Member

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    Communicated with Federal last week and Estates are mfg. in the Federal plant. Fio. and Noble Sport primers work good in the Estate and Federal Top Gun hulls. The 12SO (CB clone) and the Gulandi 1225 Spitfire are top of the line wads for performance @ 1oz. in these 2 hulls.
     
  7. notquite27

    notquite27 TS Member

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    The pre-Federal Estate cases were made by Cheddite (four stars on the shell head), and were brass. The current Federal Estates are the same cases as the Top Guns. I've loaded thousands of them with Rio 209's and Fed 209A's without a problem. I tried Fio 616's, and got the same result as Lance Howard, an occasional failure to fire.

    I shoot Kolars and Ljutics, and have had no problems with either the Rio's or the Fed 209A's.
     
  8. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Estates were originally made in Texas. You could order any type shell configuration you wanted. They were bought out by Federal. load them like Gold Metal shells.
     
  9. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Howard:

    Who makes Estate hulls has already been covered as has the location.

    Before Federal bought the brand, Estates were a Cheddite hull as notquite27
    mentioned. The Cheddite version had a plastic internal base wad. The Federal version has a wound paper base wad.

    I've never seen an Estate with a brass head. Whether made by Cheddite or Federal, every Estate I ever saw had a steel head.

    The primers in Federal made Estates have a dome shape much like Fed 209A primers. I have two Citori trap guns. Both have bottom barrels that absolutely HATE Fed 209A's and the primers found in new Estates.

    sissy

    PS: There is no published data for Federal Estate hulls. However, Ben Amonette from Alliant can tell you what will work. You won't find Cheddite made Estates very often anymore but they use the same data specified for any other Cheddite hull.
     
  10. lance howard

    lance howard Member

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    Thank you all for the info. Dan, I have NO problem with any primer I feed my TM1. The MX8 likes all primers except the F616 so far. I have never loaded a Cheddite but might try some. I use my own loads worked up with Alliants help and sent them to Tom Arbrust to pressure test along with some STS with Green dot and Rex 2. I have loaded thousands of them since 2007 and the only problem is the f616 I guess and the crimps were hard to get dialed in on my 366. I use the DRSO 1 oz wad and have found the DR target 12 clone 1 oz wad is more consistent in my chronograph tests, less than 22 fps variance. DRSO wad varies as high as 36 fps. I know the TGT12 is for the tapered case but works well in Estates and the pressure is not near 8000 psi with the 700x charges I use. Average velocity is 1154. Light 1 oz load. Crimp depth runs around .045 with the occasional center hole. I just shoot them anyway so! Dan, see you at the crab buckle end of next week. Lance
     
  11. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Lance.... I also use tapered wads in the Estate hulls. I use the
    Downrange blue XL 11/8oz wad with 22 grains of REX II for handicaps and the Downrange XL1 Green 1oz wad with 17 grains REX I. I use 450 grains of #8 for singles and dbls. All components fit together nicely, pattern great, and are pretty soft shooting. I much prefer the tapered wads over the straight walled hulls. Try this test. Load an Estate hull with a Downrange 12S3 clone wad and one with an XL blue, Win. AA, or the like. After you load them, use a Bulley shell dismantler and cut them both open, carefully. Pour out the shot from both. Now, wiggle the wad in both hulls. Notice how the straight walled wad does not fit any better than the tapered one does..... Buzz, above, is also correct. Some guns just won't shoot F616 well, and others will. It was just easier to trade off the F616 I had for some Cheddites.... I just didn't need anything else to worry about.

    As for the crab buckle shoot, I won't be there. Just had to cross this years shoot off of my "must make" shoot list for 2012..... Dan
     
  12. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    I have five flats of new unfired 24 gram Estate international loads made by the original Estate shotshell Company in Willis Texas. Although these shells have brass colored heads and look to be made of brass, they are made of steel as all other willis produced shotshells regardless of head color I have come in contact.

    Federal's Top Gun, Federal Game Load sold by Walmart and Estate's use the same fiber base wad and are Dimensionally the same. All three hulls will accept the same recipes.

    Surfer
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    My 90T does not like Fiocchi primers.

    My 1100's handle them without a hitch.

    So I use what works.

    HM
     
  14. arend003

    arend003 Member

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    Have reloaded several thousand estates with fiochi primers and never have yet to have a fail to fire in my BT-99
     
  15. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    It may also be the combination of hull and primer; F616 may work for you with a STS or Gun Club hull.

    If the Federal head has any spring to it, it may absorb the pin energy and hence not work whereas a GC hull head is much stiffer.

    regards
     
  16. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I have several thousand Estate hulls that were made in 2003 or 2004. Some have a fiber base wad and some have a plastic base wad. I suspect this may have been the transition to Federal.

    Jim Skeel
     
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