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Elephant in the room

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Border Bandit, Jan 29, 2012.

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  1. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, while loading shells we think about stuff, like today.

    At our club we pay $3 a round, that's $12 for 100 targets, or 12 cents a target. We do fairly well on that, with a couple of feeds every year and upkeep on 5 trap fields, even put a new roof on the clubhouse this year, and have a nice bank account. Some places, mostly privately owned, charge $5 a round, or 20 cents a target, and understandably, there's a profit motive involved, which seems reasonable.

    Here's my brain fart:

    Last year it cost me 31 cents for each registered target I shot, and I believe the price is gonna go up this year. Now, if our little club can do well on $12 per 100 targets, why does it cost $31 dollars to shoot 100 registered targets? I thought, well, they do have to pay someone to keep the records & such; but don't we pay dues? Friends, when you think about it, that adds up to a hell of a lot of money. Does anyone know where it goes?

    I guess it begs the question: Government costs money; how much can we afford?

    Best.....mike
     
  2. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    "Ah! ...It's a profit deal!"

    gw22_2008_0303139.jpg
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I recall from an ancient thread here that there are so many life ATA members that the ATA cannot run off of the dues of the rest of the membership, and thus has to make it up with registered fees. This spreads the costs to both life and annual members, rather than jacking the dues up on annual members.
     
  4. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    ATA fees are just a couple of bucks per day - so if you shoot all three disciplines (singles, handicap, and doubles) you have to divide that fee by three unless you are at a larger shoot where there is only time for 200 singles or 50 pair and 100 handicap. Your state fees are similar.

    What you need to consider - If you are trying to sponsor a registered event, you have to buy trophies. Even the cheap stuff is not cheap when you have to provide winner, r/u, AA, A, B, C, D, Lady, Vet, Sr. Vet, Jr, Sub Jr. for each event plus HOA, HAA. If it is resident and non-resident, the price goes up.

    So put your complaint into context. What trophies does your club give for $3 per round?

    PS - Around here, just the price of targets would not allow a $12 per hundred price. Where do you live and what is the name of your club?? (In case you cannot comprehend, that means I have trouble believing you).
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Members dues should pay for the toilet paper. HMB
     
  6. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Damn Gary Waalkes you would really have a problem with my club Fredericksburg Rod and Gun Club. We pay $2.00 a round for members and $3.50 a round for guests. In case you have a problem believing me I will be glad to send you a copy of our sign out sheet.

    Better yet go to the club website click on the documents clay and then select the botton item on the list "skeet shooting journal"

    --- Chip King ---
     
  7. locdoc

    locdoc Member

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    There is no question that registered shooting is an income producer for the host club/organization. Don't forget that at the registered shoots there is paid help, added money payouts, etc.. At the state, zone and regional shoots the extra 2-3 dollars extra per hundred pays for the trophies. Anything left over after all those expenses, I suppose, would go to the host club for their use as they see fit. Club overhead is not cheap, after all.

    My $.02

    Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist
     
  8. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    chipking - are you talking about Virginia?? Does your club have insurance, pay employment benefits and taxes, etc??
     
  9. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Gee whiz, I guess I am not shooting trap according to GW. Maybe somebody can tell me what those 50 clay pigeons that came from a small house in the ground about 16 yards in front of me are called. All I know is that I paid a total of $6.00 for those 50 birds or $3.00 each 25.

    Oh yes, that is the same price as I pay at the other club I do the majority of my trap shooting at. That might just be because both of these clubs shop around for decent prices when they buy their semi-load of targets. Incidentally they both shoot the same White Flyer targets you will find at a lot of the major shoots. So I am wondering what kind of expenses GW's club must have that they can't cover expenses on targets (non-registered) at $12.00 a hundred. I wonder where that club is so I can avoid visiting them if they have to charge such a high price for their targets (non-registered).

    Edited Update: One of the clubs is almost exclusively trap shooters. There are a very few, NO COST pistol shooters in an informal multi-club league but most of them are trap shooters anyway. Virtually all of the shooting activity is TRAP, No Skeet, No Clays, No competitive Rifle and Archery Practice fields but no formal competition. Just a open rifle range and a shorter distance open pistol range. And yes, utilities, taxes, upkeep and everything else is paid for by dues and target fees,
     
  10. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Yep sure do and yes it is in VA In fact one of the largest private clubs in VA. Major Skeet club for years and now we have 2 overlayed Trap fields. Which drives the skeeters nuts by the way. Also has Rifle to 200 yards, handgun, IPSC, and action pistol and cowboy action. I don't believe the club has any "employees" but I could be wrong about the cleaning crew being contracted.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  11. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Gary, you did just fine, until you got to the PS: part. It's North Carroll and we shoot White Flyer targets. I shot Carlisle on Saturday for $3 a round, and we charge $2.50 for club members at Waynesboro. Sorry you have trouble believing me, but apparently, ~$3 seems to be the going rate in these parts. In any case, I was simply wondering why it costs significantly more than twice as much to shoot Registered targets, at the same venues, and the question was answered that most of it goes to the sponsoring club and very little to the ATA, which satisfactorily answered my question. It just seemed like a big difference, that's all.

    best...mike
     
  12. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    chip king - a multi-use facility that can divide expenses is totally different than a dedicated trap club. Charging range fees to rifle and pistol shooters really changes things. No labor is required for that stuff and no targets have to be purchased for that stuff. I could go on and on here but I will just state that if your rifle and pistol shooters ever figure out they are subsidizing shotgun shooting, your rates will change.
    PS - rifle and pistol shooting doesn't even need electricity!!
     
  13. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    C'mon, you always have to look at the bright side....like more room to park.

    JR
     
  14. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Good backpetal Gary EXCEPT the only people who pay range or use fees at Fredericksburg are the shotgun shooters. UNLESS there is a "registered match" of some sort the ranges are all free to members and their guests.

    I certainly hope this has improved your ability to comprehend and believe. By the way where do you shoot and how much do you pay for a practice round. Is it a private club. How many skids of targets does the club buy at a time?

    --- Chip King ---
     
  15. running bear

    running bear Member

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    chipking

    Is your club a member owned club or a private owned club? What do you pay your trap help. ATA and State fees in Florida are $5:00 and targets are over $10.00 a
    case and that is by the truck load. Our private owned club has to pay rent on the land that they rent for the trap and skeet fields which is not cheap. Why don't you guys buy a trap club and see how much it cost to run it and how long it takes to get your money back on your investment.

    Buck
     
  16. zachak42

    zachak42 TS Member

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    I pay 2.50 or 3 in the Erie pa area non member
     
  17. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Buck that still does not change what we pay for practice rounds. NO ATA, VTA fees or Trap help for practice. As for the rest direct from our website.

    "The Fredericksburg Rod & Gun Club, Inc. is located just outside of historic Fredericksburg, Virginia on US Route 17 South. FR&GC is a stockholder owned, private club consisting of approximately 176 acres, on which are located three ponds, ten skeet fields, two trap fields, one rifle range, one pistol range, and a spacious clubhouse with a pavilion and a large kitchen.

    The Fredericksburg Rod & Gun Club is host to a variety of shooting and social events. Both local and regional NSSA sanctioned Skeet Shoots, VTA sanctioned Trap Shoots, and USPSA sanctioned Matches are hosted by the club. In addition, the club’s facilities are sometimes utilized by such important groups as: National Rifle Association, Ducks Unlimited, Wild Turkey Federation, Boy Scouts of America, Special Olympics, Fraternal order of Police, and Virginia Shooting Sports Association."

    Don't gripe at me because you pay more than we do.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  18. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    It's in the simple arithmetic, as I have observed. Take two trapshooters, both longtime friends. Bring up a topic, a rather literal one. (For example, "Don't you think it is a bit humid today?") You will get three opinions.

    I think clubs would make more money allowing shooters to bet on how much a round of trap will cost them on the day...reach into a hat at the gate with one's price per round on it. One has to put up a few bucks for the standard fee first so those picking a high cost won't leave. Someone once said, I believe it was the late Art Blatt, in his book: "Show me a trapshooter and I'll show you a gambler."...or something like that.
     
  19. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Chip, maybe Garry buys his targets one box at a time at Gander Mountain...grin Waynesboro is a member run trap only facility as is North Carroll, Shippensburg, Greencastle, Mt Airy, Carroll County, Tuscarora, and Thurmont, all within 1hr drive from here. Some have rifle/pistol/archery ranges, all supported by membership dues. Some even have lakes/ponds stocked for member fishing, also "subsidized".

    I assure you that Gary's propensity for calling folks liars was not well taken at this household.
     
  20. running bear

    running bear Member

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    Chip,

    Border Bandits question was why does ATA targets cost more. Most club don't have all events that your club does to help off set the cost of shooting.

    Buck
     
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