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Elbow up or elbow down?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Big Al 29, Jun 4, 2008.

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  1. Big Al 29

    Big Al 29 TS Member

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    Right hand shooter, right elbow (trigger hand) up or down?

    I see some guys religiously working on keeping this elbow up to shoulder length.

    Other guys do not. Any secret us low elbow shooters don't know about?

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  2. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    In my case, when I lift my elbow up it straightens my head up so I can see the birds better and allows me to swing the gun easier, thus higher scores. Never bothered lifting my elbow the past 4 years, but this year I got a new gun and was having all sorts of trouble breaking consistent scores, until one of the other shooters at my club suggested I try lifting my elbow...shot a 24 right off the bat. I say, if it works for you, why change it? Josh
     
  3. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    I think it was Hiram Bradley who discussed the fact that either is acceptable.
    With a high elbow you created the pocket in your shoulder because of the raised arm. With a low elbow the shoulder hunches up to create the pocket. I've seen great shooters use both. Reg Jachimowski, the first 27 yarder to win the Grand American Handicap with 100 straight,had a very high elbow. The idea that the elbow has to be shoulder height is pure B.S. All American Jimmy Heller is one of many low elbow shooters. Nearly all bunker shooters are low elbow. Nearly all women are high elbow.
     
  4. biff

    biff Active Member

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    I was led to believe both elbows up will help you keep from arm swinging and "rainbowing" on the angle targets.Biff
     
  5. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    you had better do whatever is comfortable for you and forget that style.
     
  6. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

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    Try putting your body in your regular shooting position(no gun in your hands)and raise your elbow to a comfortable angle around horizontal. Some may be above the shoulder, some lower, it doesn't matter what angle you are at so long as it is comfortable enough that you can keep it up through a full 100 birds. Practice swinging to both sides the full distance of a hard angled bird, and feel how the muscles in your back react to the swing.
    Now try the same thing with your right elbow pulled down near your ribs and your shoulder hunched up to create the pocket.
    If you are like most people, you will feel less tension in your back with a high elbow, and your swing will be more free, without any hitch at the end of the swing as you come up against the tense muscle. A high elbow lets the muscles relax more, throughout the back and neck, and allows the gun to be mounted closer to the plane of sight, lessening the need to crunch your head down to fit the stock and get a good sight picture.
    A natural fit to your muscles reduces the strain on them, thereby using less energy and giving you a little extra energy and strength (and perhaps a slight edge over your competitors) at the end of an event. If you are one of the big guns, and get into shootoffs regularly, this could be the little extra for that one bird you need to win.
     
  7. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "To my thinking, your right elbow can be either high or low, since either way the gun can be locked into your shoulder....If you drop your elbow, the bottom of the stock will be locked in by the biceps muscle. Lifting your elbow will lock the stock into the pocket formed in the upper part of your shoulder."

    You and the Target, second edition, Kay Ohye, copyright 1987
     
  8. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    The advantages of a high elbow are as follows:

    Reduced tendency to power swings with the forward arm - a high elbow promotes body rotation at the waist and hips powered by the legs.

    Easier identification of the shoulder pocket

    Raising the elbow also raises the shoulder and therefore requires a reduced drop at the heel dimension. (Drop at the heel is the cause of barrel rise during recoil.)

    Reduced back-muscle strain (as was mentioned above)

    A raised elbow helps prevent dipping the shoulder during swings and its accompanying gun canting. (The shoulders should always remain level.)

    There is a lot more to shooting well than the height of the elbow. As was mentioned, there are good shooters who shoot with their elbows low. That doesn't suggest that it's a good idea for other shooters, however.

    Rollin
     
  9. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I work at it, and it seems to help me concentrate on the target and keep the gun mounted on shots that need the gun swung left or right on.
     
  10. laura!

    laura! Member

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    Put your elbow up, put your elbow down, you do the hokey pokey and you shoot another round...


    Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
     
    SpecRaceM5 thanked this.
  11. Twixter

    Twixter Member

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    I found over the years that by keeping my elbow up I had less tendency to lift my head. If I missed a target this was the first thing I would check and most times I hadn't brought my elbow up high enough. Just my own experience. Mick
     
  12. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Up for me as It tends to lock the gun snuggly under my dominant eye
     
  13. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I believe that keeping my elbow up around horizontal makes me less prone to arm shoot, or as Rollin put it "reduced tendency to power swings with the forward arm, high elbow promotes body rotation at the waist and hips powered by the legs"

    John C. Saubak
     
  14. Bill60

    Bill60 TS Member

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    I have used both and i perfer to have my elbow down im not an all american but it feels more comfortable to me i was told when i started shooting to keep my elbow up and aver the last couple years it has lowered into a more comfortable position gradually

    If you have ever seen Dave Kelly shoot, who is arguably one of he best shooters in California at the moment, He hunches with his elbow really tight to his side he looks so uncomfortable but that dosent stop him from having a 95 or 96 average in handicap. where as Dan Bonillas one of the best shooters of all time holds his elbow alot higher than Kelly and does just as well.

    just stand how you feel comfortable and dont think about it to much and youll do fine
     
  15. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Rollin is right.
     
  16. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Elbow up keeps your face locked into the gun. Elbow up promotes gun canting with most standard stocks. Both work. Too high will cause you to loose some motion and cause fatigue.
    Joe
     
  17. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    I would say that a comfortable grip on the gun and keeping your wrist straight will lead to "your" elbow height, which will probably be very close to a 45 degree angle.

    Two All American Skeet shooters...Ed Scherer and Wayne Mayes, explained to me 20 yrs ago, that moving your gun with your ankles, knees, and waist, will prevent "arm shooting", and holding my elbow at the 45 degrees and keeping my wrist in a natural position, helps in the body's movement.
    I don't remember the phrase Ed used to describe this movement, it may have been the "Elsing Shift". If Phil Murray is around, I'm sure he's heard the term from Ed more than once.

    Doug
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Everyone should reads Rollin's above post several times. He states a lot of excellent advice in just a few paragraphs.

    For me, I need to keep my elbow up. This tends to give me just a little gun cant (bad) but keeps my shoulders level and most importantly, keeps my gun into my face during the swing to the bird.

    One of my problems is that during an event, I tend to get lazy and my elbow gets lower. When I try to concentrate on looking at the bird, I can't remember the other things I should also be doing.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    laura,

    i was going to respond,but you did,the way i was. it helps to read all posts first.

    bill
     
  20. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    gun fitter's first statement is the reason I keep my elbow high. It keeps the gun tight against my cheek when I move on the angles.
     
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