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Effort and Reward

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Chichay, Jan 30, 2008.

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  1. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Is it fair to say that if you were a mediocre student while in school you should expect a mediocre job when you graduate along with mediocre pay? I am especially interested in hearing from people who were honor students while in school and who could not get a decent job after graduation.
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I have been hiring people for 32 years for compensation ranging from $12.00 per hour to 6 figures, so I can give you a bit of prospective. It really depends on what you study. If you are in a learned skill field like engineering or accounting, graduating with honors is definitely going to show in you job selection and pay. If you are a sociology major, not so much.

    The important thing in being successful is being productive. Really smart people can be productive with less work effort than less smart people. However, a less smart person who works hard can be just as productive as a smart person.

    One of the worst employees I ever hired graduated from Princeton and Princeton Law School with honors but he didn't have a lick of common sense.

    In short, you don't have to do well in school to get a good job and be successful but you better be really smart and coasting.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I am always impressed with students of average intelligence who work very hard and graduate as honor students. Intelligence and work ethics are not directly related, and a strong work ethic is probably the most important one of these two things.

    I can give you the name of a person who was an outstanding student that only ended up with a mediocre job (my opinion). She took all the tough coursed through high school and made one B grade. The rest were A's. She graduated with honers in History and English with a 3.96 average (Virginia Tech). Her graduate grade point average was 4.0. She ended up teaching in public middle schools for 30 years. But, if I do tell you her name, I might not get dinner tonight.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jerry- Is it necessary to change both the oil in the engine and air in the tires every 5,000 miles? Could it cause a problem if the shop mechanic got mixed up and put oil in the tires and air in the engine?

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I agree Pat, cooking dinner for you for 30 years is a lousy job.
     
  6. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    One of my sons and his wife have more degrees between the two of them, than I have shotguns (thats a lot). And they are two of the poorest people I know. No job ever seems right for them, things never seem to work out. Amazing, I am truly dumfounded.
     
  7. incognito

    incognito TS Member

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    Elementary school and High school bored me. I would read all the text books the first week of school, and then I was done. The rest of the semester meant nothing to me, and I failed a lot of classes because I didn't show up. Back then there was no jumping ahead a grade at the school I attended. I ended up dropping out of high school my junior year. I spent almost 20 years self-employed, and did quite well. I started and sold several businesses, and when I was 36 I decided to see IF there was anything I could learn. Plus, I had settled down a lot. I finished two bachelor's and a master's in 5 years with a 4.0 gpa in major and 3.89 overall. I won several prestigious scolarships in the process. When I was done I went to work and established myself as one of the best in my field within a year. Now I have employers seeking me. I get offers on a regualer basis from all over the country. I really didn't learn very much in those 5 years that I didn't already know, but those little pieces of paper on the wall have opened a lot of doors for me.
     
  8. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Thank you very much for all the input. After reading some of the post (mostly from "Recession") I wondered whether my experience in this country is the exception rather than the rule.. that is, having achieved the American dream. I am in the profession that I like, have the love of the woman I adore, the company of good friends, the respect of my colleagues, and am in reasonably good health to enjoy all the aforementioned. America is indeed a unique land. It is far from perfect but it is the best there is, and I have lived in Southeast Asia and Europe before coming here, eventually becoming an American and being proud of it.
     
  9. incognito

    incognito TS Member

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    Chichay,

    Your concern should be that woman you think so much of. I had one that I would have said the same things about, right up until she left. Married for 28 years. One morning I woke up to a letter on the kitchen table. She was gone and so was all the money from our bank accounts. All she ever really wanted was money. All those years of "I love you" were nothing but BS. Now it's alimony for the rest of my life. Oh the joy of it all. Wish I had dumped her 20 years ago. My attorney (female) says it is wise to not stay with the same one more than 10 years tops. 5 is better. Then there is little or no alimony. She calls it "damage control."
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jerry- Thanks for the tip about Nitrogen. I like that because Nitrogen forms the basic explosive part of gun powder. But, do I need to avoid running over a primer? I think I have some toluene around. What if I put three Nitrogens on each toluene? What would that that help tire wear? TriNitroToluene does have a common abbreviation.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. TommyTEREX

    TommyTEREX Member

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    I was also bored to death in school, with the exceptions of shop, and art.
    Having come from a long line of mechanics,teamsters,( both trucks, and horses ),and skilled trades people, I knew early on what I wanted to do.

    I quit school at the end of my junior year, (with an 85 ave.) and enlisted in the Navy SEABEES. Upon my discharge I worked as a mechanic in the construction industry, learned machinest skills, carpentry, electrical, and plumbing. I also had my own gun shop for several years.

    My point is I never regretted my lack of a so called formal education. I loved what I did, and made more money in an average year than most teachers.
    As for trouble finding a job, maybe early on, but once my reputation got around I could always find work,( sometimes more than I could handle, LL)

    Had I not sufferd a spinal injury in an industrial accident I`d still be at it.

    I also think academia should look at a students skills, and not think everyone one should go to college, after all you don`t ask an english prof. to fix your toilet, and there will always be a need for people who can work with their hands.

    Tom R.
     
  12. TommyTEREX

    TommyTEREX Member

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    As an add on to my above rambling I like to add this.

    I sometimes go to a friends camp for deer season. In this camp we have 2 high school english teachers, 1 high school science teacher, a dentist, a chiropractor, and a Phd. in engineering, they bring me along to show them how to tie their boots every morning. LL

    Tom R.
     
  13. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Intersting thread; perhaps there is a lesson here. If you are in school and don't like what you have to study, you won't think about fully, i.e., study effectively.

    But if you really like something and think you will do well at it, it will stick with you and be easy or at least easier to learn. Sort of like: Well, don't think of other things "before and after you call for the bird"...

    Remember how well we remember all those Hot Rod Magazines, Sports Afield etc. articles read in study hall? But what about when we had to read the Scarlet Letter or some such? Can't think of two thngs at once; can only fully think of one thing unless one is really into it.
     
  14. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The tone of this thread seems to attach some sort of stigma to manual literacy.

    You need balance in your life. If you have to pay someone for every physical need you have in your life you are one sorry wretch, and I pity you, no matter how many letters you pack on to your name.

    I'm not saying you have to change your own oil.........But you should know how (and why).

    When my wife started driving one of the first things I taught her was how to change a tire. Good thing, too seeing the stuff I was driving at the time.

    Intelligent people recognize the need to connect with the material world, this is why lots of people have hobbies (art, woodworking, ceramics, SHOOTING, etc)that fill that need when they don't get it in everyday life.

    Book learnin' is great because it can give you a better handle on the world we live in but It won't grow your vegetables.

    HM
     
  15. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

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    Wait a minute. If I remember right, air is already mostly nitrogen. Can't you just remove the oxygen already in your tires for the same results?

    Could be wrong though. Chemistry was first hour of my Jr. year and I slept through a lot of it. That class was too much effort for not enough reward.
     
  16. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    I know several young people that were honor students.

    Went to college and received a degree in art,music,etc.
    Now two are tending bar and living with their parents.
    The other three are still looking for a job.
    I think the field you pick is the most critical.

    I also know of two young men that were mediocre at most and just went thru high school.They started their own business and are now very well off.
    One is a millionaire and then some.

    A lot depends on the persons drive and desire.

    One thing for sure you are never going to get very rich taking a dinner bucket to work or punching a time clock.

    Bo
     
  17. perazzitms

    perazzitms TS Member

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    It's not the Nitrogen 'per se, but the fact that it's ONLY nitrogen. There's no other gases, water vapor, etc, and Nitrogen is an inert gas. Nitrogen is run in aircraft tires because it is less reactive of temperature, pressure, etc.


    About the school thing, most people who are honest with themselves consider school as only a measure of how one applies himself. I don't see how a 4.0 in English Literature has squat to do with you if you want to be an Architect; but you still have to do well in it to maintain an overall high GPA.

    I worked for a guy once who was self made. Owned a multi-million dollar company and was an industry innovator. He said that he'd take somebody with 4 years of 'doin over one with 4 years of 'bookin any day. The top engineer in the company never went to engineering school. He just had a natural ability to figure out the simplest and most cost effective way to build things.

    Most job apps I've seen don't give you extra credit for a 4.0+ GPA - all they want to know is "High School Graduate"; and I've seem plenty of BA and BS holders with 3.87 GPA's on their resumes who failed to bring a bloody pen to fill out the job application.
     
  18. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    HM, No such stigma intended. We can't all be rocket scientists but in this competitive world, it behooves us to give our best to whatever calling we've chosen. Cesar
     
  19. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Some of the smartest men that I have known were ones that never went to college. They are all successful.

    Some of the richest people that I know were my college mates that didn't do so well with their GPAs, but they knew how to get things done, and go after what they wanted.

    Some of the best students that I knew could not drive worth a crap, understand any sports, figure out how to follow a recipe to make dinner, and were only moderately successful after school.

    Oftentimes, though, a GPA is indicative of hard work and discipline more than it is pure smarts. There are a lot of really smart students that are slugs, and get a C just because they are smart enough to get buy on very little work.
     
  20. trap41

    trap41 TS Member

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    Well If that ain't the truth.
     
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