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Education...have we been amiss?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by rpeerless, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    While we have thrown tons of money at the problem of Education, I now see clearly that Education, that gives rise to a president and legislative body, the likes of which we have now, is clearly amiss.

    How with all the money, we as a Nation, have spent and continue to spend on Education, do we find ourselves in this predicament politically, financially, philisophically, criminally and every other way?

    Perhaps, the first thing we should look at is how and where we place our Education dollars and stop the finance of mis Education, and mis Information where ever and whenever it occurs for we now are paying a hefty price for it.

    For example, Was ours a Nation that fought in favor of the preconceived concept and use of slavery or is ours a Nation that allowed higher thoughts and sought to abolish slavery? If we did not fight for what was right, Freedom, would there not be slavery here today? Are we not a nation of free men and women that come and go and think as we please?

    Yet now we stand the danger of becoming slaves to a system, not of our making because of mis education that seeks to impose and control every aspect of our lives. Our Freedom to think and believe what and how we want and not be punished for it is in danger of being lost. Singling out Tea Partiers by the IRS for example.

    Our National hertitage is being lost as those who remember history are replaced by those who don't know history and don't care.

    There is clearly right, wrong and a process of discernment toward genuine progress as opposed to retrogression. America is not wrong in her desire to do good and right by mankind. It's just that the path to hell is paved with good intentions and misconceptions.
     
  2. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Amoung other things- the Teachers Union who has fought teacher measurement for 50 years

    We are 35th in the world and sinking fast

    The other related problem is no national core-- think about it- if you cant read and do simple math- why take more advanced courses?

    Why employ people at the state and local level to "develop" math or reading or simple core courses?

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  3. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Public education does not guarantee that your child will be taught the basics of government, civics, or philisophy that you would have them receive.

    The one size fits all education does not work and parents really need to take an active interest in their children's total education especially K-12.

    The time crunch and time needed for slower learners limits the progress a total class can make on a given day as well. One item a day per subject is too slow for some kids. A kid(s) that gets addition on day one has to wait for the others to catch up and is put on hold (time to goof off? draw, doodle) by educators until the others catch up. That's what is touted as "equalization".

    I was told by a teacher (head of the PTO) that all the kids would be "equalized" by Grade 4.
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    This is not always the case (equalization, that is).

    My granddaughter in middle school is progressing in math at about 4 years above what is considered the norm.

    Last year they were going to have her leave school and go to the high school to get specialized math study. this would have been a hardship with the time lost and the expense of travelling to another school in the middle of the day.

    Fortunately they had a similar student, and they imported a teacher daily for the purpose.

    peerless, if you actually got that from a teacher you should have immediately complained to the school board.

    HM
     
  5. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Went the private school route, no uniforms. The system I felt was too corrupt and instituted uniforms as well, despite backlash from parents and other incidents.
    Totally democratic town and board. Glug glug.
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    A Detroit radio station (WJR) mentioned that 75% of all minority students in the Detroit Public Schools don't graduate from high school. Total graduation rate is only 35%. Average cost per student is $7,000 per year, whether they graduate or not.

    Is this a school board problem, teacher problem, parent problem, or a community problem?

    Detroit is billions in debt, yet the Council is fighting the Governor who has appointed a Financial Manager. They are on the cusp of going bankrupt, yet the biggest argument is how to save the city retirement plan benefits.
     
  7. Grade VI

    Grade VI Member

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    Education starts at home. With today's dysfunctional families, how can a teacher change what does on in the home? Mother has a new boy friend every week, dad is coming home late from the bar and kids can stay up late and watch HBO or any of the other trash that is on TV. Parents need to be parents and not try to be their child's best friend. Parents are afraid that they might make their kids mad at them. Discipline starts at home, too.
     
  8. klightfoot

    klightfoot TS Member

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    Simple.Get Govt out of the education business. And as far as minorities not graduating,TOUGH STUFF!!!!! Show some ambition for once and quit giving them everything based on race instead of results.
     
  9. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    Education is at home. Fortunately lots of books as gifts and books at home to read as well as trips to the book store kept interests alive whether or not the books were on the 'approved' list or not.
     
  10. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    The biggest problem with education today is that there is too little that occurs "behind the barn." Kids have no discipline, so why do they care? Most kids can't see what life is all about until they're about 25 or 30, and parents have stopped "educating" them at home. Every generation gets softer and softer on their kids until there is no parental respect left. When there is no parental respect, there is no societal respect. When there is no societal respect, everyone is in it for themselves, and society disintegrates. I think that's where we are as a nation.

    Mark
     
  11. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's that easy. As GradeVI said, the parents have to care enough to make sure their kids are getting a good education. They are the ones that make sure they get to school, do their homework, check grades and progress, etc.

    Obviously not happening.

    The cost of education, teacher retirement plans and benefits, cost of multiple administrators, and facility cost is a community/political issue seldom attached to actual education. Concerned parents use to dictate the direction of the school board. Those parents are not the majority anymore.

    Sometimes I think Americans feel we have spent so much on education that the parents think our "system" takes care of the kids education, and there is nothing to worry about. In reality, the parents drive the education system's success.

    Who got you out of bed to go to school? Made sure you did your homework, and came down on you when grades weren't up to par? It wasn't a politician or a teacher.

    Community mentality affects the local district's educational success, but the parent is ultimately responsible.
     
  12. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    Publicly funded education is one of the greatest scams ever foisted on the American public, especially as it sits today. As with any endeavor paid for by the taxpayers, it has become an abyss which chews up money with no real return to the taxpayer.

    By playing the "It's For The Children" card at every turn, people vote to give boards of education money from the heart, and not from the head.

    For years children were put into "grades" which have no bearing on the ability to learn taught material. They're then pushed on to the next grade to keep them in chronological order. As with any human endeavor learning is based on capacity, and not age. When I grew up, and attended the Louisville public schools in the 1950's and 1960's, children were routinely held back, until they learned the subjects. But, since then, the concept of social promotion has taken hold, much to the detriment of the child.

    I live just outside Detroit, and the results of Detroit's education model are absolutely abysmal. Teens coming out of high school can't read at even so-called sixth grade levels. They are functionally illiterate. They're then accepted at junior colleges, or even universities, which then must bring them up to speed, so they can learn on a higher level. And, the higher level isn't college freshman level, it's only about tenth grade. The colleges make out great, since they collect tuition on remedial classes. The college graduation rate for Detroit high school graduates is about as low as the overall high school graduation rate.

    For years, Detroit education, its administration, and school board have been nothing but a cesspool of waste, fraud, and corruption. For years, board of education members had chauffeur-driven cars, and lavish spending that wouldn't have been tolerated in the private sector. And local political blocs have fought, on every level, attempts by the state to appoint emergency financial managers, preferring to maintain the status quo. However, even EM's can only do so much. Once their terms are up, the school systems are still left with expensive teachers' union contracts, and a lack of local funding.

    I know there are a lot of complaints that it's the teachers' unions' fault, but that's only one piece of it. Most families, if you want to call them that, have no father, or father figure, in the picture. There's a total lack of family-taught discipline. The nuclear family, for all practical purposes, doesn't exist in Detroit.

    Best, Dennis
     
  13. copper

    copper Member

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    Respect is not taught by a beating, is taught by talking and explaining you can make life hard or easier not easy. And being there for your kids and setting and example . As far as teaches most lets see 185 days a year you work vacations through out school year and some places maga salaries . Soyosett LI NY had a superintendent making $550,000.00 a year . Some school systems TEACHERS average over $100,000.00. And benefits to die for and you cant get fired . The worst places to teach seem to have lowest pay. And lets face it if you are around seventy or so YEARS OLD was hay day of country no more, Union jobs on job training cheap living good pay ,lots of early retirement ,and great hunting out your door . And NOW how many of these kids have broken homes ,look at fore closer rate on houses ,must make it hard to do well in school, divorce rate through the roof. Lets be real they have it harder on many fronts. Is not all there fault . No easy fix
     
  14. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    So if learning does not occur in the schools it is learned on the streets and those that would undermine, know that. And so the history of our world becomes distorted and misconstrued, full of foreign spin and used as a divider instead of uniter.
    Immigration increases, factions and tribalism occur and 31 dialects of one foreign lanuage is brought into our schools systems to cope with it and teach your kids at the same time.
     
  15. copper

    copper Member

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    There was a radio program they were interviewing a long time cop ,he said in a lot of eras you had a choice of being in a gang up until last few years Not now. He said there is no choice, most of us can not imagine growing up in that. What is the answer I have no idea some will break out many will not is just Sad. The deal is it cost a lot of money to keep people in jail so we should do something ,that and fact that government pisses away millions of dollars . I have to say I have more compassion for these kids than some Ivey league Lawyer or Politician that breaks the Law and goes to camp for a couple years. They had more choices . No does not mean I except criminal behavior , you come to my house try and steal from me it will go bad, I will not like it but will not ask about what drove you to it first.
     
  16. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    Respect was taught by physical punishment for thousands of years. Liberals have removed that within the past 50 years. I believe society has suffered, but I'm guessing the liberals think it is better. Glad I'm old and won't be around to see it degrade much more.

    Mark
     
  17. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    As God said a long time ago, "spare the rod, spoil the child" plus a lot more about the subject of discipline and raising children.

    There is NOTHING about "time outs" except this warning, don't let a child "stew" about being punished. You do it and get it over with.

    Gee, I wonder why so many liberals don't like "systems" that WORK??!! Kinda explains why they act the way they do! SPOILED!
     
  18. copper

    copper Member

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    So you take a kid from a broken home and let some teacher beat him, OK Teacher would have touched one of my boys he would have wanted to leave country ,the only thing would have saved his ass. No my sons never got in trouble and no I am not divorced married 32 years. I never got in trouble in school at all and there was some teachers I would have loved to thrash. Did my sons feel that I might get physical yes did I very little and never beat them, . You beat someone or belittle them you have and enemy . You get through that you are trying to help them you stand a chance. That makes me a Liberal because I do not see beating as a way of life or the only answer . My dad did not beat me but I was scared to death of him. My sons say at times I scared them yelling, and there were times when after I yelled I apologized for over reacting. My youngest said to me that sucked he was just sitting there hating me and I ruined it with by apologizing . They are 23 and 28 never got in any trouble both went through service one still in. We lead by example, read the paper we have lots of successful people that are piss poor examples to our youth .
     
  19. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The one thing that the Govt' did to make our kids stupid and ill mannered was taking God out of the classroom.

    I am not standing behind a pulpit, just stating facts.
     
  20. James344

    James344 Active Member

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    Look, it's simple. The importance of education is taught at home. If the parents do not care about their childrens' education, then the kids will not care and grades will suck until the kid eventually decides to quit. The teachers don't care. They get paid no matter what.

    I completed my Master's Degree last year and my wife is one year from her Doctorate. My 15 year old son is a high school sophomore who takes college level courses to get ahead on his degree. He is only able to do this because we as parents not only were on him constantly about his school work, but because we had the ambition to better ourselves as well.

    My 7 year old is starting 2nd grade this fall, and is enrolled in a summer reading program at a local college. We have taught him education is important, and everything builds off of reading. If you can read well, then you can learn anything. He currently reads at a fourth grade level.

    Importance of education is taught at home. Period.