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Earned Yardage Table Rule Change

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hauser, Aug 19, 2009.

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  1. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    The current handicap rules should be modified to eliminate the requirement for shooters to receive yardage for scores that don’t earn yardage under the earned yardage table defined in paragraph 1 of Section VI sub-section D of the rule book.


    The modification would eliminate paragraphs 2, 3, 4, and 5 of the rules which read as follows:


    SECTION VI
    THE ATA HANDICAP SYSTEM


    D. EARNED YARDAGE


    2. Any score of 96 will automatically earn 1/2 yard provided it does not
    earn at least that much under the earned yardage table.


    3. Any score of 50x50 or 75x75 in events of that length will automatically
    earn 1/2 yard provided it does not earn at least that much under the
    earned yardage table.


    4. The State/Provincial Handicap Champion will automatically earn 1
    yard provided the score does not earn at least that much under the
    earned yardage table.


    5. Any score of 97, 98 and 99 or winning a total of $750.00 or more
    (option and added money) in a single handicap event will automatically
    earn 1 yard, and a score of 100 or winning a total of $1,200.00 or more
    (option and added money) in a single handicap event will automatically
    earn 1-1/2 yards provided these scores do not earn at least that much
    under the earned yardage table.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  2. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Hauser

    "The modification would eliminate paragraphs 2, 3, 4, and 5 of the rules which read as follows"

    Does this mean that you now believe that all earned yardage should be eliminated and the only yardage payout should be for a win????

    If so how will this change the trend of the 27yd shooters to dominate the major handicap events.

    Bob Lawless
     
  3. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Bob


    The suggest applies to earned yardage which includes the keeping the current earned yardgae table (paragraph 1 of Section "D".



    Jerry Hauser
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    One of the goals of many shooters is to earn yardage and eventually "make the 27." Shooters like me can only get there through "automatic punches" since I doubt I've "won" more than a dozen handicaps in my 23 years of shooting and 145,000 plus handicap birds. Sure it's put me too far back, but that's my problem, not anyone else's. My H-code is off and being a Vet, I can drift as close as I want now or stay where I am; again, it's no one's business but my own, as was method I used to get to the fence. I'm way too realistic to ever play any options so I'm not removing myself from the shear-able flock which seems to irritate some, but again, it's my money, not theirs.

    How about making the "automatic" punches ":voluntary automatic?" That is, if I earn a half-yard for a 96 I can take it (or leave it.) People shoot for many reasons, and more and more it's just for the fun of it which includes, for some, reaching some personal goal, or piling up targets, or averages, or yardage or whatever. Take way the reasonable chance of reaching the personal goal that keeps them shooting and they are gone. And they will never come back, that's for sure.

    Neil
     
  5. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Well spoken as always Neil. Gee, I hate it when you're right. Shoot often and enjoy it while we can, Bob
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    So you think that winning a 15 person shoot with a 90 is more deserving than shooting a 96 at the Grand and losing?

    You are trolling right?

    Don Verna
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Don Verna - I have won 15 participant shoots with a score of around 90. I have shot a couple of scores at the Grand that got me a 1.5 yard punch and did not qualify for a shoot off. I was pleased with my performance at both. I shoot only against myself and only I know when I feel like I have done a good job.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Kent

    Kent TS Member

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    When I first began this game (quest) I marveled at a select group of 27-yard shooters that I thought were " god’s “ After shooting for 15 years I now realize that most of them were just jerks that made the 27-yard line. After equaling or bettering their accomplishments I still am just a "nobody" but like Pat I shoot for myself and against myself. I am just two targets away from my Grand slam but 100 from the 27 still amaze me now.

    Last year I shot another 98 in the GAH and got nothing, this year I shot a 94 and got the satifaction, that I did not shoot worse lol
     
  9. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    Neil,I can appreciate your experience. (Thanks) When I read your post reguarding the "shear-able flock" I did not envision the "Shearer" as a lucky short yardage shooter. I imagined some of our All Americans. I believe that's what you meant. (correct me if I'm wrong).

    If you're "OK" with makeing the atomatic punches for a 96, "voluntary", what about the automatic punches for a high score of 92 at a local match? That's how I reached the 27 yd. line. For a long time I was a threat to nobody.

    What's wrong with the idea if you win, "You Move Back". Then, if you are not competitive within a 1,000 target review, you move forward? This is the rule most of us live by. And this could be done at most clubs. Even if you have to shoot all 100 on just one special trap.
     
  10. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    What I "implied" is ADD CONCRETE.
     
  11. Grayson Mayne

    Grayson Mayne Member

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    Thank you Pat. That needed saying and as usual you said it very well.
     
  12. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    EE, yes I left out "adding concrete".
     
  13. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    The intent of this proposal is to keep shooters from getting frustrated with the sport and quit because they are moved back when they shoot 96 or 97 in handicap and were never in contention of winning anything.


    The intent is not to keep shooters from reaching the 27.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  14. Francis Marion

    Francis Marion Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit I kind of lost my place from the beginning until the end. Many different ideas going in many different directions. That is why I love this forum. It comes down to ideas.For my two cents, I think you need a mix of both sides. I don't think a win at a small shoot under windy conditions with a 92 should get you a punch. On the other side, a 97 at a mega shoot (assuming you didn't qualify for a trophy) shouldn't be an automatic punch either. I believe the way to encourage people to participate is to reward success. If the 98 doesn't qualify you for dick because the club throws ducks and there were fifteen 100's, no punch. Trophys and options should never coexist. The ATA doesn't promote gambling, but they encourage it. Go figure that one out. The outcome of a given event is determined by who wins what trophy. Punches need to be given based on that. Option money is another subject.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Many consider earning a punch is a great honer that exceeds any money or trophy that might go along with the yardage.

    Other consider a punch as a penalty that should be avoided under many circumstances.

    Some wish to change the rules in a way that supports their viewpoint. There is no compromise between these two camps.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Automatic punches, boom, or bane?

    It depends on your reason for being. Currently, it seems to favor the 27 yard glory seeker, while reducing participation AND options playing enthusiasm.

    Why go to a shoot, just to get a punch, for winning nothing?

    Thank you,
    Longshooter
     
  17. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    No Longshooter, Some of us go to enjoy the day, perhaps help out in enhancing the sport for all of us a bit, and to put a little more lead down the barrel hoping to do better than yesterday. Shoot often while we can, Bob
     
  18. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Much ado about nothing.

    You can ask to shoot from the 25 so you can shoot with your buddies on the 27 if that is what turns your crank. If you shoot in the 70's it is your choice and harms no one except the scorer who has to add your lost birds a couple of times to make sure they got it right.

    You can go to small matches and hope a 90 gets you a punch and crawl your way to the 27 - and you will need to refuse reductions along the way.

    You can strive to earn the 27 using the system in place. To me, that means taking 1000 target reductions caused by poor scores.

    There is no RIGHT answer. It is about what drives you and what your goals are.

    Hell, you can even sandbag and try to make some money at it. But then you want to stay on the 20 yard line and this thread is meaningless.

    Don Verna
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Lets see someone said "Why go to a shoot, just to get a punch, for winning nothing?" What else are you condoning staying home until there are sufficient funds to warrant winning????

    I don't know about the rest of you but I will take a yard any time or anywhere I can get one a win is a win. As far as the 27yd shooters being glory seekers, RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Jerry those that get frustrated with the sport and quit because they are moved back when they shoot 96 or 97 in handicap and were never in contention of winning anything will eventually quit for some other reason, They are only looking for a reason to quit anyway.

    That would be the day I let the system force me out of any game.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    The automatic punch provision has been in place as far back as I can remember. There was a time 30 years ago when a 96 or 97 was an above average score that merited an increase in yardage. That was also a time when the number of registered shooters was at it's peak.


    The list of things that have been introduced since that time are voice pulls, Pat Traps, adjustable combs, adjustable ribs, choke tubes, and an easier target presentation. These changes have made scores of 96, and 97 much more common place with a registered shooting population thats declined from a high of 48000+.


    Basically we have fewer shooters shooting higher scores therefore it seems the the scores for the automatic punch provison should be either eliminated or changed.


    I know Im not in tune with some of the people that have a different view but I believe most competitors would rather get a punch for winning a handicap shooting an 89 in the wind than getting one for shooting a 96 that didn't win place or show.


    Jerry Hauser
     
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