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Drams of Powder

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by coyote268, Dec 31, 2007.

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  1. coyote268

    coyote268 TS Member

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    I was at Wal-Mart and saw some Federal one ounce shells for $3.88 so I bought a flat. Their speed is 1290 fps, and they are 3.25 drams. I knew that I couldn't use them in a PITA shoot as nothing over 3 drams is allowed, but I would use them in practice for my first shot in doubles. At the range yesterday a friend said he bought 5 flats of them to use in registered shoots. Told him he couldn't. PITA no, but when I went to the ATA book it says nothing about drams just fps of different weights. Now, my question is, can these be used in a registered ATA shoot? If yes, why not PITA? Interesting huh.
    Dan
     
  2. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    Just shoot them and don't worry about pointless, outdated and silly rules.
     
  3. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Not withstanding the bad advice that AS gave you . . . from an ATA perspective those are legal. The ATA rules are based on shot weight and velocity. Dram equivalent is an outdated measure that is not used in ATA rules.

    Scott
     
  4. coyote268

    coyote268 TS Member

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    Earl, I agree the dram thing is outdated but it clearly states in the PITA rule book and I just checked their web site that anything over three drams is not allowed. If somebody looked at the dram thing on the box of shells the individual was using according to PITA, they would be disqualified. I think the best measure would be the fps on a given load. The old measurement was a black power measurement which has changed but PITA apparently has see not to.
    Dan
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The Dram Equivilent is an arcane, obsolete unit of measure designed to put smokeless powder, which was thought to be a passing fad, in the same light as black powder.

    This measurement is indeed very confusing, and charts must be memorized to make any sense.

    FINALLY, after 100 years, the ammo makers are getting away from a black powder measuring system. ;^)

    If you MUST be familiar with the Dram Equiv. system, find an older Lyman manual. It has this chart.
     
  6. Pull Bang

    Pull Bang Member

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    FYI



    The ATA rules book: SECTION XIII, paragraph F3 states the following.


    No velocity greater than 1290 FPS for 11/8 ounce loads.


    No velocity greater than 1325 FPS for 1 ounce loads.


    No velocity greater than 1350 FPS for 7/8 ounce loads.


    Frank
     
  7. coyote268

    coyote268 TS Member

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    Earl, their book of rules doesn't say anything about speed of shot which seems pretty odd to me especially when they specify drams. I alway thought PITA and ATA were pretty much on the same line with things but this is an exception that probably should be looked at but I doubt it will. Dan
     
  8. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Dan,

    Double check the shell requirements in a 2007-08 rule book. With my new average card there was a 2008 rules change card. PITA has revised the definition of legal loads; now in-line with ATA rules. 1 oz 1325 f/s.

    Jason
     
  9. coyote268

    coyote268 TS Member

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    Jason, you're right. I just checked on-line and they are now legal if I read it right. My book is last years but I see they have now changed. I'm off to Wal-Mart to get some more of those one ounce loads.
    Thanks Dan
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    earl4140- Sorry you do not like my PFS, but at least I like it. You suggested that PFS be banned because they are ugly. If we ban shooters for having ugly guns, shooting hats or act ugly at a shoot, we could have some difficulties. You suggested some sort of minimum trigger pull requirement. How much weight should be required to pull my double release triggers. You also suggested some sort of penalty for shooters who disrupt the squad rhythm. Would this include shooters who shoot faster or slower than I shoot?

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Right on Pat. You do realize that the velocity rule goes unenforced by the ATA. I know you like to rely on the integrity of the shooters. But there are some with very litlle. HMB
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Nice catch, Jason, you saved me writing that....Bob Dodd
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    HMB- If I believed the velocity rule, or any other rule, was being violated by a shooter, I would obtain adequate evidence and submit a complaint to the ATA. This is the enforcement mechanism for all of our rules.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Pat,

    Are you going to cronograph their shells while they are shooting. HMB
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    hmb- You seemed a bit critical of the ATA for not enforcing the velocity rule but you seem to avoid trying to enforce yourself.

    I actually see no other practical method except shooter integrity. Also, the upper velocity limit is so great that exceeding this limit is of no significant value. I shoot new AA Super Handicap 1 1/8 shot from the 27. I have shot some practice rounds with 1200 ft/sec shells and I am convinced that I do not need the velocity of the Super Handicap shells I use. I can not explain why I still use them.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    "I am convinced that I do not need the velocity of the Super Handicap shells I use. I can not explain why I still use them."

    Pat,

    It is for the same reason you have a PFS. It is because you are one of those "Slicks with deep pockets to take advantage of the rank and file."

    Ain't Earl a hoot?
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Earl, I think if we team up we can penetrate his cranium. HMB
     
  18. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Looking at your averages Earl, I figured you were shooting a bolt action 20.
     
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