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? Dr. A C Jones & Neil & Pat

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rio, May 24, 2007.

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  1. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    Load A Has 1 1/8(492.2 grains) 0f 7 ½ = 393 pellets velocity is 1200 fps.

    Load B has 393 pellets of 8s but the weight of the pellets is 416 grains (just a hair under 437.5 grains, one ounce). The velocity is 1200.

    My point is that if you have two loads that have the same components, same pellet count but the weight of the pellets is different which load will be the better load for breaking targets from the 27 yard line?

    Trap shooters are always talking about how you need to shoot 1 1/8 form the 27 yd



    Thanks Rio
     
  2. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    I aint one of the ones your asking the question to but here is a cut and dry simple answer ...

    If you do what your supposed to do both loads will smoke the target as long as you do what your supposed to do.
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I can speak for myself and perhaps Dr. Jones as well.

    If an 8 will break every target that would have been broken by a 7 1/2 at that distance, there's no difference.

    If there are more situations when a 7 1/2 breaks the target and an 8 won't then the other way around, then the odds favor the larger shot.

    I doubt, as long as you are comparing the two you did, there is any difference.

    But, once you decide that a single 8 is just as likely to break a target as a single 7 1/2, then you should shoot 1 1/8 oz. because your pattern will be better (denser) no matter what. (as long as we are just playing the odd of a break and are concentrating on the pellets, not all the rest)

    Neil
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    We have chewed this cabbage before.

    one ounce of 8 shot has the same pellet count as 1&1/8 of 7/12. So the pattern should be foughly the same. The 8's may be a smidge tighter because less pellets are deformed. not enough to consider.

    So the remaining factor is energy. obviously traveling at the same speed, the larger pellet will have more energy. In the case of a one pellet hit this becomes a factor. However, if the smaller pellet is traveling faster, it may very well have the same amount of energy.

    The physics buffs can work that one out for me.

    Then we have the subjective results. If you doubt the one ounce load, the uncertainty will cause you to miss targets.

    My pal Johnny, rest his soul, found the one ounce to be very adequate and shot the bejesus out of them.

    I seem to have difficulty past the 23 yard line, and need to use the larger payload.

    Still gets down to mental masturbation, don't it?

    HM
     
  5. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Is there something wrong in stating the obvious?

    As long as you do what your supposed to do as a shooter the target will break no matter what load your using?

    Are you actually telling me that there are people out there who use excuses of wind, shot, load, gun, beans for dinner and anything else that will work as an excuse instead of just saying ... I screwed up and I missed the target?

    I think that HM smoked the target into oblivion with just a 5/8oz load when he said it still gets down to mental masturbation ... the sport is all in the head and if you let your head screw you up your just screwed!
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There is an additional factor that has not been considered. The heaver shot will retain its velocity more than the lighter shot. Both 7.5 and 8 shot may leave the mussel at 1200 ft/sec, but the 7.5 shot will arrive at the target a bit sooner. Most likely, this time difference is not significant except when chipping the tail off a right hand bird from post five.

    A factor that can be important is that the greater energy retained by the larger shot will reduce its lateral displacement by wind.

    I have long preferred 1 1/8 oz of 7.5 shot for handicap, but last week I did buy 3 flats of 1 1/8 oz #8 AA Super Handicap (they were cheap). I plan to shoot some this Sunday. I strongly suspect that I am not good enough to detect any difference between 7.5 and 8 shot.

    My preference for 7.5 shot is based on the unscientific advice given to me many years ago by Frank Little.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    lumper, Iam alittle slow so bear_with_me!!!!!!!!! What is meant exactly when you say "when_the_shooter_does_his_part"?????? I've just been around for a couple years and to this day don't quite understand this statement in its stated meaning....

    As to the question, wouldn't it also matter with respect to the composition of substance forming said batch of targets at a given shoot (ie are they soft or brittle)??
     
  8. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    MIA ... is there something you disagree with on what I said or are you disagreeing with me because I said something? It seems to me you dont really have a problem with what I said but you do attack me for saying it. Sad MIA, just sad that you feel the need to attack a person for what he said instead of discussing what was said.
     
  9. incognito

    incognito TS Member

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    lumper,

    Are you getting the message yet?
     
  10. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Yeah ... people dont like the boat rocked and I hope there are those who have there life vests handy cause this boat is going to start a rockin and we have those like MIA to thank for it.
     
  11. ANTRIM UDF

    ANTRIM UDF TS Member

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    Does anyone know what a Lumper is and why they are called Lumpers? If you know that explains a lot.
    The only definitive answer/test I have seen on eights vs seven& halfs is Dick Bennett`s book Trapshooting is a Game of Opposites. In it, he challenged a doubter to shoot unknowingly a mixture of shells, one box at a time from 27 yd line. The scores were recorded by the score keeper who also notated which box size shot each 25 was broken with. It was a good amount of shells, not just 100. At the end of the day both shooters shot 1 to 2 % better with the seven & halves. Not much; but in a hundred bird event? I just beat your 99 with my 100! Or your 91 with my 93!! That is the only double blind test I have seen. These guys were not world champs, just very good shooters.
    On a hot, humid summer nite; I love the smell of smoke from 1 1/8 nines at 16.
     
  12. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Just like you normally do MIA ... you spew your trash and then delete. NTW simplistic negativity or simplistic truths that just give a stinging slap to the face of reality?
     
  13. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Your posts to this beholder, seems as you mean them as the attacks they are so might I suggest you follow your own suggestions.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Is it at all possible that this thread might degenerate into something not informative to us?

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Ahhhh Dick Bennett's book, the best book I have read to date on the subject of trap shooting....
     
  16. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    The reason for this post, is that it seams that we get hung up on the weight of the load in shell not the amount of pellets in the shell that do the work. The Info. That is coming out is all good.


    Thanks Guys
    Rio
     
  17. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Ahhhh Dick Bennett's book, the best book I have read to date on the subject of trap shooting....
     
  18. Rio

    Rio TS Member

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    The reason for this post, is that it seams that we get hung up on the weight of the load in shell not the amount of pellets in the shell that do the work. The Info. That is coming out is all good.


    Thanks Guys
    Rio
     
  19. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    I think that he meant that if a #8 would miss the target by .0025 the 7 1/2 would hit it by .0025 since the 7 1/2 is .005 bigger that a #8. Sure glad that .005 is working on my side to get more hits.I agree with Lumper's first answer and might add that if were were as perfect as we wish we would only need 1 pellet to break a clay. How big of a pellet? What velocity? Should it have spin of not? Patched ball or Sabot? Hard or soft lead? Lead or Steel? HMMMMMMMM Think about all that while you're on the line.
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Just remember, Dr. Longshot, high humidity means _lower_ air density. Like more heat or higher elevation.

    Neil
     
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