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Doubles, what is the rule?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by CIM, Jul 30, 2007.

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  1. CIM

    CIM TS Member

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    The scorer has the fimal saying but if I know I missed i will have it scored as lost.If someone on my squad saw the piece and says they saw it also then I will score it as dead but if nobody saw a piece i will have it scored as a lost target

    CIM
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Richard, some of those youngins scoring have great eyesight compared to older trapshooters, if they are watching targets. When shooting, a small piece can fall off the bottom of a target without the shooter being in position to see it. I know the honesty of most guys would think they lost such a bird but in fact did break a small piece that he wasn't able to see. If the scorer says she saw a peice, I'd take her word as fact rather than some of the guys shoot with us. The scorer has the final say but some can be out voted and have their mind and the score swayed. I try watching as many birds as possible when I'm shooting too, for that and other reasons. Rule says it's dead bird. Hap
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I would state that "I thought I lost a target" and ask the rest of the squad for their opinions. When this has happened to me, the scorer has always changed the dead bird to lost but the rules do not require the scorer to make the change. A line referee could become involved but I think that would be very rare.

    Remember, the shooter has the poorest view of the target. His head is getting bounced around. The scorer and the other squad members have a much better view of the target than the shooter.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    You know this really bugs me..........If it went down exactly like you said. The first thing I would have done is to ask the other shooter to mind his own business and keep his cake hole closed. I would then thank the scorer for making the right call.

    GS
     
  5. Doug Sims

    Doug Sims TS Member

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    Richard - was it questioned by a shooter or a 'chuter?

    Doug
     
  6. Jim Brown (the puller)

    Jim Brown (the puller) TS Member

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    Most times that I have had a lost target scored as dead, the scorer called it lost but marked it wrong. I'll tell the scorer that the target was called correctly but mismarked. What bothers me is when the scorer is marking the sheet without looking at it and puts the zero on the wrong line. Most times it's difficult to remember which target SHOULD have been marked lost.

    Called a dead target for a good shooter at Thurmont once and got talked into changing score to lost. That WILL NOT EVER happen again. If I see a chip, the target will be scored dead no matter if the ATA President says it was lost.

    Twenty years ago somone could have taken some aspirin tablets to the t-bar spot and thrown them, or not, and I would have been able to determine whether it was thrown or not. My eyes are not quite that good these days.
     
  7. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I have to agree with CIM. Seen it more than once a scorer misses a call for whatever the reason. If he/she is sure there was a piece so be it. If not let other members of the squad make the determination. Also if I or any of the shooters I shoot with have this happen, we will immediately ask for a clarification as to whether the target was dead or lost. Not at the end of the
    post. - Jim
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Richard and Doug, maybe that's the only way the guy could figure out how to beat you? :) What a shame, what an azz! Hap
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jim Brown (the puller)- Just a little note to you that most others will not fully understand. Usually, doubles are not too difficult to score. We know which bird most shooters shoot first and we look at that bird. But, a few shooters do not follow the general pattern and we end up looking at the bird we expect the shooter to shoot first and we get surprised. That requires a quick adjustment. Anyone who has not scored a lot of doubles will not appreciate the momentary confusion caused by this situation.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Jim Brown (the puller)

    Jim Brown (the puller) TS Member

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    Pat, I know whereof you speak. There's almost always one guy who always shoots the target on the right first, no matter what post he is on. He's the one who causes me to do a double take.

    The ones who REALLY cause a headache are the ones who start out on their post 3 by shooting one target first and then switch because the other target is dropping fast. They usually miss a couple doing that and then switch back, causing another hitch in my giddyup.
     
  11. cueguy2

    cueguy2 TS Member

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    This happened to me recently at the Southern Zone. For a change, I was into doubles and had 49 / 50 on the first half with 30 straight on the back side. First target fourth post, took a very small couple of pieces off the bottom ( short shot it ) and the target jumped straight up a couple of feet. Rattled me and barely broke the second. Change posts and heard a 9. I questioned, scorer said I missed that one. Got mad, missed the next one and added one more miss to finish with a 96. 97 shot for trophies that day. I should have kept my cool and tried harder for the 98, lesson learned. Heard later that a couple of the shooters on my squad said I missed it too. You had to be looking at it very closely to see it. I have had this scorer many times and she is excellent. Stuff happens, people miss calls and it isn't always fair and I should have broken it harder........There was no recourse to this problem.
    I have heard that there is a new rule that the scorer does not have to say "dead pair" any longer. Silence for broken targets and only speaks for lost targets. Is this true? Nubs Wagner.
     
  12. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    The score keeper says she "saw a piece from the target"------DEAD-a-PAIR

    I've had it happen that the scorer called "dead" a target that I thought I'd missed, I'll ask "are you >SURE< about that? I thought I missed it?" If subsquently she insists she saw a piece I'm not one to stand out in the hot sun arguing with the sweet young thing about such trivia.

    John C. Saubak
     
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