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Doubles Trouble

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by $$$SHTR, Jun 28, 2011.

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  1. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    I am at my wits end trying to shoot doubles. I just can't seem to be able to post any good scores. 90 has been my high score so far this year. My Singles and Handicap are fine, (97 singles,95 long yardage last shoot), but 2 81's in doubles. I shoot a Ljutic Monogun for the 1 bird events and would dearly love to have a Ljutic O/U but they are just too expensive for the 500 - 700 doubles I shoot each year.

    I'm trying to shoot the doubles with a Browning Citori Special Trap. The gun has a standard rib and shoots flat. Would a higher rib and POI help?? What POI do most of you use for doubles?? I rarely miss the first bird, but the second is on the way down lots of times. I try to shoot the first one as fAST AS I can and the 2nd one still beats me.

    Any and all help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

    Tomas
     
  2. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have an adjustable comb on the stock?

    If not, get one cut, then raise the comb.

    I shot a Citori Special Trap for many years. It will do the job.
     
  3. Scoutman 06

    Scoutman 06 Member

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    If you are hitting the first target pretty good, the flat shooting gun is probably not the problem since that is the target that is rising fastest. If you are shooting the second target as fast as you can then trying to speed up is not an option. I had the same problem & an old timer suggested using a move he called "the Joe Devers fish hook" where you shoot the first target & loop the gun down & over to the the second target so that you are always under it, rather that swinging the gun straight across & possibly covering up the second bird. Works for me on that rare occasion when I remember to use it. John
     
  4. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    You identify your own problem: "I rarely miss the first bird, but the second is on the way down lots of times"

    And I might disagree with Scoutman - I think the flat shooting gun might just be the problem.

    First off: If the second bird is going down, ever, you're taking waaay to long to break the first bird, or way to long to focus on the second and get it broken. I'm gonna guess that you're having to chase the first bird (because your gun shoots flat) and catch it, if not outright cover it up before you pull the trigger.

    That first bird has to be shot on sight...spot shooting ALMOST. There is a very short, very quick move up and pull the damn trigger. Anything longer than that is gilding the lily here....you should miss just about as many first birds as second birds.

    Solution could be in your hold points. If you're a righty, on post one you hold just LEFT of the front center of the house and parallel to the ground (a high gun). Post two...10" in from the front right corner. Post 3, two feet outside the house for whatever one you're going to break first. 4 is 10" in from the front left corner. Post 5 is over the corner closest to you. These get you in the ballpark - and you're always parallel to the ground.

    Take the first one with "reckless abandon" and know you're going to miss a few. Then move your eyes to the second bird and then the barrel. taking the first one so fast will feel awkward for a while.

    That's my humble opinion...and I'd find a higher shooting gun - I shoot the same 80/20 for everything. the higher POI makes it a little easier on the first bird, and the second is just like a slow single then. I'm no doubles expert, but I average 90-92 IF you eliminate all the targets I shoot in Alaska from November to March (when 80 is a great score, LOL)

    Good luck!!
     
  5. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Jeff's got a pretty good take on it.

    I shot my Special Trap for about six years and did ok. I had a low 90s average in doubles. I had the comb raised a little bit.

    Then early one year I decided to raise the comb some more, about an 1/8". My average went up 2 - 3 targets to a little over 94.

    And, you don't want to "shoot" fast. You want to "see" fast. A lot of people watch very good doubles shooters and marvel at how fast they shoot. They don't shoot fast, they see the target fast. Shooting follows seeing. Not the other way around.
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You are having trouble hitting the second bird, adjust the POI of the second barrel so you hit the second bird when you shoot right at it. HMB
     
  7. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Could the problem be that you're only shooting 500 to 700 doubles per year. Your scores might improve if you were to shoot as many doubles as singles.

    Ed Yanchok
     
  8. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    practice more is better, good practice means pushing the edge of the envelope, if you are seeing tht first bird break you are wasting too much time on it, the referee will call your targets.your eyes have to find that second target about the time you're first should be breaking. I sweep my targets, first shot is made with the gun already headed to #2. some say not a good thing to do but works well for me. Practice spend about 200 rounds in practice each time you go doubles are a timing issue, repetition gets you there. If you are missing a bunch, have a knowledable coach spot for you. lighter loads usually means better gun control
     
  9. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Tomas, the hold points that Britt gave us works better than most. How much higher POI is the Ljutic than the Browning?

    Ajax
     
  10. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    Ajax,

    I have been using those hold points. I think the gun is just shooting way too flat, as I have to cover the first bird to hit it. The gun has an adjustable comb so I'll try raising it and see what happens. What POI is a good starting point??

    Are you going to Evergreen for the State or the Grand??

    Hope to see you there.

    Later,

    Tomas
     
  11. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    ........"but the second one is on the way down lots of times."

    I don't really think a higher POI is the solution?
     
  12. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Actually John, it probably is the solution.

    As Jeff indicated in his post, Tomas is probably getting to the first target late. Which means he'll get to the second target late. Most likely on the way down.

    A higher POI (and perhaps a change in eye hold) will allow him to hit the first target early (won't have to chase it) which should get him to the second target faster.

    Since he has an adjustable comb, it's a simple matter to raise it and see what happens. After all, one test is worth a thousand expert opinions.
     
  13. Hill topper

    Hill topper Member

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    i am with ole cowboy on this.

    I think you need to shoot more doubles and get your timing down.

    ed.
     
  14. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    You can practice all you want but that wont make it shoot any better. The gun is training you. Do what V10 said and increase the comb height a 1/16th at a time until your centering more of your targets. After that.................work on your technique. Having a gun that shoots where you want is your next step. Good luck.
     
  15. Doubles Xpert

    Doubles Xpert Member

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    http://youtu.be/L8HGFoK1t_M

    go to this link and Watch a great shooter !!
     
  16. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You know the path of each target, trap shooting doesn't get any easier than that. Just set your gun up properly, use the right ammo and chokes, and you will be AAA with a little practice. HMB
     
  17. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    V10,

    I agree that the reason Tomas is getting to the second target late (falling) is prob'ly because he's getting to the first target late. IMO what he likely needs is a more agressive move to the first target, not a higher POI. OTOH, I'm a chaser, not a trapper so to each his own?

    One thing crosses my mind on this............if Tomas's Ljutic that he shoots singles and handicap with shoots quite high then he'll have problems if he picks up a flat shooting gun to shoot doubles with, that'll be VERY confusing to the little subconcious fire control computer in his head?? Someplace I've read the theory that you should be able to shoot singles well with your doubles gun and I think that's good advice.

    John C. Saubak
     
  18. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    PM sent.

    Ajax
     
  19. mette56

    mette56 Well-Known Member

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    I was taught to shoot doubles by the great C.E. "Barney" Barnhart around 1970. He stressed that if one put much attention towards the first target, the second will be diffucult. So his point was to learn to shoot the first target "snake eyed" or just as JeffP explained it. Barney would take us out to the practice trap with the trap set for doubles. We were to load two shells but shoot the first target only. That excercise proved that we COULD learn to break the first target amazingly fast if we were to not look for, shoot at, or think about the second target. Focusing intently and only at the FIRST target. Once that becomes second nature, you can start to look for the second target. You might even realize that, after you perfect this technique, you never totally loose sight of the SECOND target after the pair appear. Practice should be your top priority until this technique starts to pay off. I once told a struggling doubles shooter of the above theory. His response was "Well, one MUST break the first target!" What I think he needed to say was "Well, one FIRST must learn to shoot the first target correctly, THEN learn to shoot the pair correctly".

    Lots of good advice from others above.

    Good luck and let us know how you improve.

    mp
     
  20. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    I was cruising the internet last night and came across a discussion on shooting doubles by using the swing method. The guy started off to one side of the first target and then shot both in the same swing movement. Like on post 1 he would start way right of where the first bird would appear and then swing to the left shooting the right bird first and continue swinging left to shoot the second bird. He claimed that shooting this way the recoil will bring the gun up to the second target and is an easy way to shoot doubles. I had never heard of this method before. Have any of you had any experience with double shooting this way?? Might have to give it a try, as moving both directions doesn't seem to work for me.

    Tomas
     
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