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DOUBLES, Spot Shooting First Target

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by bigdogtx, Sep 28, 2008.

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  1. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    Kiner had an article in Trap and Field in Feb of 2007 or so which he asked Harlan Campbell, Leo, Ray and a couple others that I can't think of right now and NONE of them trapped the first bird.
     
  2. old tex

    old tex TS Member

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    I know 1 very good shooter, who has won at every level, who always shoots rt. bird first and absolutely traps firt bird on stations 4 & 5.

    He is now a sr.vet. but still competes a very high level.

    Obviously he is not as successful with targets that don't come set consistently but now days with Pat traps that is not much of a problem.

    Incidentally he turned 77 today!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY Terry Brogdon

    unc
     
  3. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I can name a number of people who trap the first target, but you might not know the names, so just to get name recognition out there, you should see one of the best - Kay Ohye.
     
  4. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    Britt Robinson told me to hold just under and outside of where I wanted to beak the first target and by doing so my move to the second target would be smooth. He was correct, and if you ever had the pleasure of watching Britt shoot doubles, the word WOW doesn't quite do it justice!
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    One problem with trapping the first bird it that the first bird does not always end up in the same place each time just before you shoot. Target weight differences, worn brushes, wind, target spin, etc. can all add variations to the position of the first target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I'll support what Pat said with a story. Back in the early 1990s, I watched Kay Ohye, Frank Little and a younger guy who let his empties fly and then caught them just before they went over his shoulder shooting doubles at our state shoot. All three shot very well but I was kind of surprised to see Frank Little miss two first targets for a 98. Later that day, I discovered that we were parked next to each other respectfully asked him why the only targets he missed were the ones we all assume are the "gimmes" of shooting doubles. He told me that the reason was simple - he was a "spot-shooter" and the trap boy did not place those targets on the arm correctly, thus they were not where they should have been.

    His reply puzzled me for a couple of reasons. Why would such a good shooter continue to use a style of shooting that could cost him targets through no (perceived) fault of his own? I was also surprised at how easily he could blame the trap boy when it is our job to shoot the targets where they are instead of where they ought to be. Frank Little obviously broke some good scores in the wind - what's the difference?

    Ed
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    I have found that trapping the first bird allows me to use a skeet choke and #9 shot. This allows more than enough leeway for machine error.

    On www.ISSF./TV you can watch Olympic and World Cup mens double trap shooters trap the first bird. They almost all trap the first bird. HMB
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I've seen very few traps that throw consistant doubles targets, especially in the wind. In the Midwest, there is seldom a windless day, thus I don't "trap" the first target. I ususally pick out a tree or something for reference on the first shot. Seldom, all the targets line up with the same reference spot.
     
  9. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    For the reasons that Pat posted above, don't get hung up on playing the "trapping game".. It will cost targets.

    A moving gun on the first target will facilitate a smoother and easier move to the second target as apparently Britt teaches.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Setterman,

    When trapping the first bird it is only 5 to 6 yards out of the house. The wind effect is very small. HMB
     
  11. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    I've also watched Harlen's and Kays squad shooting doubles and am amazied at how fast they take the first target out of the house. One guy on Harlen's squad at the NE Grand shot it so fast it looked like if it made 3 feet out it was alot. If they are not spot shooting them I have no idea how the hell they do it.
     
  12. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    hmb, I know that, but assuming most don't get on the first bird as fast as you and I may, I'd hate to advocate trapping the first target. All I see is a flash, and I "pop" it. But I still usually have to make a minor "adjustment". I shoot IC/M or IM. I carry a 95 ave, not great, but competitive.
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    When I shot a high POI (22" @ 40yds) I had no difficulty trapping the first bird. At most, a minuscule correction was required. Now that I have lowered my POI to 12" high, it just doesn't work anymore. No I use the Harlan Campbell method, which appears to be very close to the Britt Robinson approach mentioned above.
     
  14. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Would some one tell me what "trapping the bird" really means--Thanks.Is it simply spot shooting the bird or is is somewhat different?
     
  15. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    I always considered "trapping the bird" the same as spot shooting. I have tried it a couple of times and everytime I start to think it will work for me I get a trap that throws the birds a little off every now and then. And yes even Pat Traps will do it. I now shoot my doubles just as ljutic73 described.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  16. widomaker

    widomaker TS Member

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    Well how about it Sean Phil Kay tell us how do the rest of us mear mortals shoot the damn doubles ?
     
  17. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    1. The first target sets you up for the second target.

    2. It doesn't matter how fast you break the first target, as long as you break the second one BEFORE it starts to fall - hitting that second bird on the way down is TOUGH.

    3. No matter how cool you look inking that first target 7 inches out of the house, there will be days when you're off, the target is of, the voice pull drags a little bit, whatever, and you'll miss a couple.

    4. In reference to #3, what looks really cool is winning an event....then you can come on TS.com and pontificate freely.

    I'm one of the 'slower' doubles shooters at my club...I've not won outright, yet, but my average is coming up.
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    A big advantage to trapping the first bird is the height you choose to break it . If you have a tail wind and the second target is flying low you trap the first bird close to the house. If the wind is in your face and the second bird is flying high you trap the first bird a little higher than normal. This technique puts your gun in the right place for the move to the second bird. HMB
     
  19. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    and the two sides shall never meet. I like to hold a high gun and let the target come to the barrel. When you know where the target is going to be, I don't know why you would want to "track it" before shooting. You must hold high enough to be able to adjust for variations - particularly if you are shooting over second rate traps like the Superstars. The other side is concerned about wind and other minutia as rationale for tracking the target before shooting it.

    Either way, you still must know where the targets are going to appear and you must still have a plan for breaking them. The part people are leaving out is that no matter how you approach doubles, you actually need to practice - and I mean practice a lot. The silver bullet here is PRACTICE - not how you approach the first target.
     
  20. canada

    canada Member

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    rmy, I by no means consider myself a "big dog" like you wanted to hear from, but I'll offer my own advice. Sorry, some is repeats of the other doubles thread, but this maybe sums it up.

    Sean Hawley made excellent points on the last doubles thread, especially about the "u move". His response on how to shoot doubles was probably the most intellegent response i've ever read on here. (Thread was called doubles, move to the second target)

    Regarding spot shooting the first target, he wrote that if the pulls are exactly on time, targets always in the right place, wind is calm, it may work, but if anything is off kilter you're in big trouble.

    That is rarely ever the case, and even if it is, personally i dont think it works.

    Here is how I think doubles should be shot.

    -hold slightly over the trap, probably 6-10 inches? i start with the gun ever so slightly in motion (can't do that in singles/hdcp!), so it can't be too high. the reason i dont hold higher is because i've missed first targets that i'm sure never got up to my gun because i was holding too high and moving.

    -a move on the first target is essential. you have to see the target come out, move to it, and if need be, make the necessary corrections. i know where the target is coming out, so i move my gun in the path of the target, and shoot it when it gets above my barrel

    -a controlled move on the first target will lead to a controlled move on the second

    -moving over to the second target with the gun in motion (not due to recoil) is far easier, and results in a way smoother move. i've accidentally "spot shot" first birds, and absolutely thrown the gun to the second target.

    -i dont think you should find a spot in the background to look at. if you do, when the target comes out you have to unlock your eyes from the background and find the target. place the gun on the path where the target is going to come out (station 3 is a bit diffrent). i look the same spot i do in singles, down the rib, i'm guessing 10 yards out.

    hmb, you can shoot however you like, but i dont think you should change where you take the first bird according to the wind. i dont adjust anything. as long as

    -you're watching the first bird
    -break it with a smooth move
    -move your eyes over to the second target and find it before your gun gets there
    -swing smoothly to it, see your lead, and pull the trigger

    wind doesn't make a difference.

    again, this is all just my opinion!

    pat lamont
     
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