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Doubles gun for a 13 yr old?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by gasman03, Aug 23, 2007.

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  1. gasman03

    gasman03 Member

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    This fall I am going to be in the market for a doubles gun for my son. He is 13 and not very big. He now shoots a BT-99 for singles. I was looking at the Browning XT. Would this be a good choice or to heavy for him? I would like some help on what might be bets for him.

    Thanks Corey
     
  2. kenf

    kenf Active Member

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    Corey,
    I am selling a Citori Plus gun that can be refitted as he grows. Has a built in recoil reducer. There are pictures on my post.

    Ken
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As suggested above, an 1100 youth model. However, it would have to be a used one. The current youth model is an 1187. Because it can handle 2-3/4" 2-1/2 dram 7/8 oz loads up to slugs and 3" magnum turkey loads, it makes a versatile shotgun for a kid. They come in matt black with a synthetic stock, or fully camo'd, with a 21" barrel. In fact, they're so handy I'm tempted to get a camo'd one and put an adult length buttstock on it for upland and small game in rainy weather, when I don't want to take my blued shotguns with walnut stocks afield.
     
  4. gasman03

    gasman03 Member

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    Ok so I should be looking for an automatic rather than a over/under? I really want something in a trap model also.

    Corey
     
  5. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    Corey,

    do not jump into a semi auto too quickly. if you can do it have him shoot a o/u and a semi auto in doubles and let him feel the difference. if he is going to stick with trap for a while then the o/u for doubles is the way to go. very few people are shooting semi's in registered doubles events. i've been down the gun progression road with my own son and if i had to do it over again he would have gone straight into a high end gun and bypassed the bt99, 1187 and 3200.

    and if you can do it have him start out his doubles by taking a lesson or two - it will make a world of difference. if not a lesson then some help from a really good doubles shooter that knows how to explain how to shoot the game.
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Not so fast. The major advantage of a gas automatic is recoil reduction. In a gun of the weight most 13 year olds can handle, the automatic flat out has far less recoil. Particularly a 20ga gas automatic. The Remington 1100 and 1187 20ga youth models will cycle a 2-1/2 dram 7/8 oz load, which is lighter than 12ga loads by a 1/4 dram. The recoil is very, very soft. Further, most clubs that cater to kids use autos. The Oregon Hunters Association bought a pile of Rem 1100 youth models for youth instruction because they have low recoil. Don't turn kids off with guns that have stiff recoil, and they will in a weight the kid can handle. When they get large enough to handle a gun with the mass to absorb recoil, then let them make the switch if they want. As for few people shooting semi's in registered events, that doesn't make one whit of difference here - this is a youth starting out. It's going to be some time before he or she gets to a registered event. The main reason these people are using over/unders is that they can keep shells for reloading and they can use two chokes. TNeither is an issue for a kid starting out.
     
  7. shotgun 1

    shotgun 1 Member

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    The youth model has too short a barrel and he will outgrow it quickly, as in maybe the first day it comes home from the shop. Get a field gun with a longer barrel and cut the stock down. My Ethiopian size 0 14 year old totally non-athletic daughter was shooting a 30" 391 20 gauge last year. It only weighs 6 pounds. I think you'll find the longer barrel a much better starting point. You don't need a 30", but I'll bet he could handle it. The 391 is much lighter than the 1100 youth. I have one of those, but my daughter much prefers the 391.
    Dave
     
  8. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Cory;

    A main problem you will face is keeping the gun well fitted as your son grows. A youth model would probably be the best for him now but as he grows, he will need different stock dimensions.

    The two most important dimensions at first, will be the length of the stock and the distance of its comb below the rib. Stock length affects your son's ability to swing the gun easily and accurately. The height of the comb allows or prevents his ability to look along the gun's rib with his cheek snugly on the comb.

    Less important considerations are the size of the grip and whether or not your son can position his hand to pull straight back on the trigger. If the grip it too large, he will have to slide his hand up and forward on the grip. This will then require him to pull up rather than back on the trigger and will affect his ability to "time" his shots.

    The thickness of the grip should also be considered. A grip that is too thick is more difficult to hold securely and use to pull the gun snugly back to the shoulder and keep it there during swings.

    A stock designed for youths will have a recoil pad with smaller dimensions. The pad size on an adult gun will be such that it will cover too large an area on your son's shoulder and chest. The pitch of a wood stock can be changed to better accommodate a butt that is too large but the pitch on a synthetic stock usually cannot.

    A necessary consideration will be the ability to replace a smaller stock with one designed for an adult. Other than finding a youth stock initially, getting a larger stock when your son is ready for it should not be a problem.

    Such may not be the case when it comes to barrel length and its accompanying weight. You may want to consider a shorter barrel initially that can later be replaced with a longer one.

    A "trap" model gun refers to a gun that will stand up the amount of shooting usually done by trap enthusiasts. A second feature involves the comb of the stock, usually Monte Carlo design (with a notch removed at the rear.) Trap guns also historically have combs that are higher, i.e. their level being closer to that of the gun's rib. This is so shooters' eyes are at a height just above the height of the rib. For that reason, the guns point of impact is higher than flat shooting field guns and trap's rising targets do not have to be covered with the barrel to give the necessary vertical lead.

    If you choose a semi-auto for your son, be sure to have it equipped with a shell catcher to prevent ejected shells hitting the shooter to your son's right when he is shooting singles.

    Rollin
     
  9. gasman03

    gasman03 Member

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    Is the fit of a doubles gun different for a singles gun? The BT-99 he shoots now he does well with. We did have a RAD II put on it and also had it fitted. It already had the adj comb. We are shooting registered targets so I really want to go with the 12 guage. He has shot about 500 doubles this year and we have been using his trap coaches Model 332 Remington. He has a 72% average. I guess I am looking to get him somthing he likes and fits him so he knows what he will be shooting.
     
  10. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    At my home club there is a 12 yr. old, admittedly good sized boy, who started with an 1100, then a BT99, managed to run 100 at registered H'cp at short yards, got a Browning XT O/U for doubles, and liked the O/U so well he now shoots it in all games - quite well by the way. Don't ignore the O/U and light loads for doubles, you may find it's a perfect all-around gun....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  11. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    We had several kids shooting the Beretta 3901RL again this year. The 28" barrel worked fine for the singles and handicaps. This model has a short LOP and is very light. The distance from the trigger to the pistol grip is a little shorter also. The comb is adjustable. I believe the unit comes with extra shims. I have shot this gun in doubles and found it to be very fast and my scores went up. I have heard from Beretta that a 30" barrel can be added since most of the parts from the 390 unit will fit it. I CANNOT vouch for this personally as I have not had the opportunity to change one yet. Most of the smaller junior high girls have no problems handling this unit even if they are tiny.

    <br>I agree with both Brian and Rollin in the posts above. The semi will shoot softer than the O/U. Most people using a semi in doubles will use a 8.5 or 9 first shot anyway. As Rollin said, you will need to keep adjusting since your boy has a lot of growing to do. When the kids shoot all summer, the changes are more gradual. Multi sports kids only shoot in the competitive season and that is when you really notice how much they have grown each year. I reread Rollin's post several times as this is what we go through with the trap kids and parents each year. I know some people like the SKB youth combo, but I have not had a chance to work with one. The price difference is substantial. The good news is you can resell your used gun after your son out grows the ability to adapt it to him. I don't sell guns so have no dog in it. Do like working with the kids. IMHO Omaha
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Dave makes a good point about barrel length. I bought my kid's regular 1100 and 1187 20ga guns with 26" barrels. There's really not much difference in weight of the 21" and 26" barrels, about 1/4 lb.<br>
    <br>
    On the other hand, a lot of kids are doing just fine with the 21" youth models for singles and doubles.<br>
    <br>
    The main point here is to get them started with a gun that does not punish them. I can't believe how many parents buy a 20ga 870 or single shot and the kid gets beat up and turned off. Watched one girl complain about her 870 youth model. I loaned her my son's 1100 20ga, and she started busting clays. She told her dad that if he expected her to shoot any more trap, he was going to trade the 870 in on an 1100.<br>
    <br>
    Get the kid started with a soft shooting gun they can handle, and the rest will fall into place. Give them a bruiser, and it won't matter down the road because they'll give up.
     
  13. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about the precise weight of your proposed combination, but in the Browning Plus guns, the Citori 30" is only 9 oz. heaver than the BT99 Plus. Get your son some free weights and have him do curls. If he was shooting a BT99 Plus, the Citori Plus listed on this thread would be an excellent choice, but with the rib height difference between what your son has now and a Plus gun, I don't think you two would be happy. Whatever you do, don't saddle him with an automatic. One irate squadmate with a dent in his wood or metal and your son will be scarred for life (let alone a few jams during his rounds). If the XT is fairly similar to the BT99 your son has, give it a long look. If not, try to find him a BT99 Plus Micro (or standard) and a Citori Plus. Good luck. Though frustrating at times, this is the best time of your lives.
     
  14. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    30" Browning XT... that's what I shoot for all events. Granted, I'm not 13, but I'm a small lady and this gun is not too heavy, really well balanced and you could probably get it fitted like his BT99.

    On the other hand, the only time I could shoot my RL Beretta 391 well was in doubles. You might consider one of those. Just add a shell deflector on it (that's what I had, worked great). Just my 2 cents!
     
  15. rjdden

    rjdden TS Member

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    I am taching my Grand Daughter Trap Shooting, Skeet, Doubles and such. She is 12 will be 13 this Oct. She has shot the Baretta 391. She has shot the Browning XT, She has shot the BT99. She has a Remington 1100, And, she shoots it quite well for a beginner. The only major problem she had at the begining with the 1100 was it was slapping her in the cheek and brusing it. This is something that is natorious with the 1100. But she learned how to mount the gun properly so it won't do this to her now. She loves shooting it and refuses to shoot anything else out there. She says it's just like a light shoulder push when she shoots it. And it's a 12 gage that has been cut down to fit her. With a 26" barrel. She says she can move things and add things as she gets stronger with it and grows into it. I load her shells that she is shooting. 16 grains of Red Dot, CB1100 wad, 1 oz. Shot, AA Shell. My wife who is small in stature shoots a Remington 1100. She had the face slap problem when she first got started. She don't any more, and hasn't for many years now. Rich.(inPeoria,Az,)
     
  16. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    If you want your child to be successful at Doubles buy him a real gun. The Semi-auto 1100 youth is your worst choice. A good bet would be 30" XT with the factory MC comb. The best choice is a nice Krieghoff Model 32 O/U if you can find one. Bottom barrel impact is adjustable and a single barrel can be added if you want!!
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Please explain why the 1100 youth is "the worst choice" for youths shooting doubles. Perhaps the youths in my area simply shoot better than the youths in your area?
     
  18. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    Subject: Doubles gun for a 13 yr old?
    From: oleolliedawg
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    Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2007 - 04:08 PM CT
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    If you want your child to be successful at Doubles buy him a real gun. The Semi-auto 1100 youth is your worst choice. A good bet would be 30" XT with the factory MC comb. The best choice is a nice Krieghoff Model 32 O/U if you can find one. DO YOU HAVE ONE FOR SALE? I AM A NEW SHOOTER ON A BUDGET. I SHOOT DOUBLES ONCE IN A WHILE. HOW MUCH FOR YOUR K32 O/U ? tHANKS Bottom barrel impact is adjustable and a single barrel can be added if you want!!

    Reply to the Forum Thread
     
  19. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    If your son is small in stature I doubt if he will handle the weight of most Over/Unders well. The fact is most over unders are heavy. they may seem that way to an adult man or even to some adult women, but to a small kid they will feel very heavy. I have seen kids struggling to hold up Dad's O/U and having to lean backwards to do it. The BT-99 micro might be a choice, but even it might be heavy for him. Lifting weights or not, Nobody builds arm and muscle strenght over night. I have seen many kids doing well with the 391 semi auto. I like the parallel comb model. The reduced lenght gun (RL model) seems to work well for lots of kids. It comes with two recoil pads and the longer pad can be installed as he grows. They are also very soft of recoil especially with one once loads.
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    My son started with a Model 32 30" OU when he was 10 1/2. Broke his first 25 straight 3 weeks later. Weighed all of 75 lbs. Made the sub-junior All-American team shortly thereafter.

    Why not an 1100 youth? Reliability, shell ejection and low impact-not a formula for success.

    Enuff said!!
     
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