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Doubles ? for Neil or Pat

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by kiwiG, Jul 4, 2008.

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  1. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Hi Guys, New Zealand has taken the outrageous step of increasing our National Doubles match to 25 pairs (up from 15 pairs). Up until now the 'normal' doubles match was 10pr shot 'shoot and walk', and I guess club and provincial champs will remain so. I can't see us progressing THAT far in my lifetime, but I would love to see doubles shot as 5 man squads, how ever many pairs per post, then move. My question is this...OK, under your system the squad sees a pair or 2, shoot their 5 pairs, then change lanes...does the 1st shooter get to see a pair from the next post, or is he the only one on the squad that doesn't? I guess as a next question...would you change it if you could? And if so...what to? Thanks for your help and opinions. Cheers-Graham.
     
  2. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I'm neither of who you asked this question of but I'm a "squad leader" where neither of them are.

    After the post change a squad leader is not allowed to see a pair from the new station. I have predominstely been a squad leader of 34 years and I don't think it is needed although I wouldn't object to the change. In PITA I believe they are allowed to see a pair after the post change.
     
  3. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    K1W1,

    Lead-off or the squad leader can call for a pair of targets, but not by the normal means.

    1)Making sure the bolt is facing the speaker when closing a semi-auto.

    2)Accidently bumping the speaker with the end of the barrel.

    3)Loudly clearing your throat into speaker.

    You get the idea here. I've seen all this and more, it's all in how you play the game!

    ec90t
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Shooting leadoff for ATA Doubles places the shooter at a disadvantage. This is especially true if he traps the first bird. I feel a leadoff shooter should be able to see a pair at every station. HMB
     
  5. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    If the doubles are set properly the lead-off shouldn,t need to "see a pair" from every post. If they're set the way they should be they always go the same place. "let's see a pair" after every post change is just a waste of targets.

    John C. Saubak
     
  6. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Thanks guys, I can see both sides of the coin. OK, as I mentioned we 'shoot and walk' here, but must remain 'on station' until the next shooter is done, then move over behind them as they wait for the next shooter etc...my next question is this- Under your rules does the first shooter have to stay 'on station' until the change is called? The point being that if he were to sneak over to the next post he also gets a look at a couple of pairs from the new post. Cheers-Graham.
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Graham, the program here is to remain (relatively) stationary on your post, whichever of the five it is, until the fifth shooter shoots his or her last shot of 5 (or 10). Then everyone moves right except the person who just finished on post five who moves around behind the others to start shooting on post one.

    Anyone who tried to move early to "get a look at a couple of pairs from the next post" would be thought of as a boor if not a cheat, and might get away with it once but that's about it.

    The person on one - leadoff - should, in the best possible world, have quite a bit of experience with doubles. Then the expected flight is etched into your shooting and as you get to a post, your eyes and gun just move where they belong and you are off.

    It comes up now and then but I just ask "What's the big difference between singles and doubles?" You've no idea where the singles target is going and you can hit it; why is it so important to know that the first bird will run up that fence post, that blade of grass? You already know, or should know, close enough to hit it anyway.

    I think it would be a waste of targets. But if such a rule comes to pass, I won't worry about it either.

    Neil
     
  8. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Thanks Neil, I figured as much, and also agree that showing a 'proof pair' after each post change is a waste of targets. Shooting here in New Zealand is evolving slowly, and as a way forward our Association is borrowing more and more from what seems to work well in other countries. As I mentioned, I don't think 5 pairs per lane will happen here in my lifetime, but I just wanted a little insight into how it works for you guys. Kind Regards-Graham.
     
  9. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    K1W1:

    I normally shoot leadoff on doubles. I'm only fair at doubles but I've carried a double A average nine of the past ten years. If I missed targets as a result of shooting leadoff, they would include a disproportionate number of missed first targets of the first pair following a move. That simply isn't the case.

    Indeed, if getting to see 'extra' targets was of any particular advantage one would expect to find a positive correlation between American trap doubles scores and the post on which the shooters start. Post five would tend to have the best scores followed by posts four, three and two. The shooter on post one would have the worst scores over time. There is course, no such correlation.

    IMO, shooting leadoff is only a disadvantage for inexperienced shooters and the wankers mentioned in ec90t's post. One might argue leadoff could be a disadvantage on days when the targets are inconsistent. However, when targets are inconsistent, they pose an extra challenge for everyone regardless of the post they're on. So... that gets us back to the previously mentioned inexperienced shooters and wankers : ).

    sissy
     
  10. 682LINY

    682LINY Member

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    I get my look at the birds ,,while the squad before me is shooting,,,I do shoot post one ,,,and lead off in doubles,,,,as taught by Kaye Ohye,,,I hold the same point on the house,,,5 points for 5 posts,,,,slight alterations for baddly set houses,,,,
     
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