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Doubles 1st shot distance?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ntgr8, Jan 20, 2012.

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  1. ntgr8

    ntgr8 Member

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    What is the distance that a fast(good) shooter breaks the first target? I'v been told that it is between 23 and 25 yds. If thats the case then they have only .25 to .33 sec to see the target and fire. Any idea how far the target travels form the machine until it is visible to the shooter? I can't react in .33sec and don't try. If I hold to close(low)to the the house the tgt goes by before I can shoot. I know how I have to do it, just wondering about the really fast shooters.
     
  2. FernieTrapGuy

    FernieTrapGuy TS Member

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    Since the targets come out at exactly the same angle every time you can shoot it pretty quick. Use the background if you can, pick a spot and hold higher than normal trap. You should not need to look for the target. It should cross that same point every time which allows for a much quicker shot.

    Randy
     
  3. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    "You should not need to look for the target" ?

    Focus as soon as you can as soon as it comes out the house. I pick up mine a foot above the house and follow it. If you shoot at the blur going by you, you are shooting at a blur not the bird.

    If it takes you longer to focus, hold a higher gun, look back at the house where it is coming out, focus on it, follow it and when is is above your bead move as little as possible, track it and kill it. Get to the second bird.

    CM
     
  4. Michael Wascom

    Michael Wascom Member

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    @ FernieTrapGuy

    What is your normal hold on 16 yard trap if you're saying hold a higher gun?

    My normal hold is a about 3 feet above the house leaving me very little vertical movement if any,it works for me and allows me a quicker shot.

    On the first target of a double I'm about 6" or less above the front edge of the house and then trap the target.
     
  5. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    The normal height of your gun is where ever you can see and shoot the first bird clearly. Experiment with your heights and it will become obvious where you should hold for your first shot. It may be more fun to shoot it quick but if you are not seeing the bird you will not advance. So hold where you can see it. If nothing else learn to look down where it is coming into view.

    Six inches means you are seeing it and trying to catch up with it. Which is fine at first. Later you will hold a high gun and let the bird come to you.
    Probably higher than than you can imagine right now. I probably hold four to five foot up. But you cannot do this until you learn to look down and track the bird.

    Be patient it will take time. Take a Kay class is the best thing you can do. IMO

    CM
     
  6. Michael Wascom

    Michael Wascom Member

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    I tried holding a higher gun the last time I shot doubles and ended up being to late on most of the the 2nd targets and shot over the top.
     
  7. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    Michael : That is normal if you are not staying into your gun and or picking your head up looking for the bird. You cannot just shoot a couple rounds and figure it out. Make a plan stick with it for at "least" 500 birds not changing in the middle, and when you find a nitch that is working do not listen to ten guys telling you ten different stories on how to shoot doubles. That alone will doom you!

    Take a class, it is worth it.

    Barry : You can add to this if you like? I seen you were bored earlier.

    CM
     
  8. Michael Wascom

    Michael Wascom Member

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    In the last doubles marathon(1000 targets),about 200 birds in I started to hold closer to the house and my avg went up consistently through the course of the day.

    The last time I shot was only 100 targets so I tried the higher hold just to see,it didn't work.

    To be truthful though,a doubles marathon is about the best practice most of us will get in doubles just because of cost.
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If you trap the first bird you can shoot it at 21 yards. Hold a level gun, about 3 feet above the trap house. Look for the bird to come out of the house with your non shooting eye, when you see the bird under your gun pull the trigger. Then move the gun to the second bird and pull the trigger. Dead a pair. HMB
     
  10. FernieTrapGuy

    FernieTrapGuy TS Member

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    Claymuncher: Exactly! What I meant was you know where the bird is when it is a clear & whole traget. No need for exessive tracking which makes for a quicker shot IMHO. I don't advocate shooting the blur either.

    Michael Wascom: I think hold height for singles is somewhat a personal preference and mine is lower in singles than doubles. That's just me though. Good you found a doubles technique that seems to work well for you.

    Randy
     
  11. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen:

    Before it's over, nearly every discussion about doubles includes some variant of three statements.

    1. The flight paths of doubles targets are completely predictable. Every pair follows the same exact trajectory.

    2. The "best" strategy is to mark your hold point with a landmark in the background. A common corollary holds that leadoff shooters are at a great disadvantage since they can't preview the first pair on posts 2 thru 5.

    3. A person can (and maybe should) trap the first target.

    The first two statements are appropriate as a starting point for new doubles shooters. Serious competitors have better options. The concept of "trapping" a target will just get shooters into trouble. Allow me to elaborate.

    Statement one is a common misconception. Doubles targets don't oscillate but there is most definately some variability.

    When Winchester hand set traps were king, the human factor played a major role. Setters that couldn't or didn't consistently load targets against the finger made doubles shooting really interesting! Pats and other self-loading automatics are better but even if they were perfect, wind would still be a frequent fly in the ointment.

    My point? If every first target gets shot based on the location of the pair before, shooters will miss targets just as sure as the world. Good scores require contestants fire at targets WHERE THEY ARE not where they SHOULD be.

    Landmarks in the background? What if there isn't a good landmark? Maybe the background all looks alike. Maybe the only usable landmark is in the wrong spot. What then?

    I would respectfully submit the front edge of the traphouse is the best landmark reference. The basic hold points are the same on any traphouse at any club. If the field is off a little, an appropriate adjustment is easy enough to make.

    As for "trapping", I have no idea what that means. To consistently break first targets requires them to be seen, tracked, then shot. In that respect doubles targets are no different than singles or handicap.

    People sometimes get in trouble when they watch the very best doubles shooters smash pair after pair at amazing speeds. There often isn't much noticable gun movement. Here's what you should conclude when watching those guys...

    1. Their shooting fundamentals are nearly perfect and are executed almost flawlessly on every pair.

    2. There is almost no wasted time or motion.

    3. Regardless of speed, talented shooters (and their guns) are in total control from start to finish on every pair.

    They aren't good because they're fast. They're fast because they're good.

    sissy
     
  12. ntgr8

    ntgr8 Member

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    Question--- how far or how close can you break the first target? 20, 21, 22yds?

    Question--- how far does the tgt travel off the arm until it is visible to the
    shooter?
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Sissy, you covered doubles shooting about the best I've seen written guy!!Should be posted on every club house bulletin board for new doubles shooters!

    Hap
     
  14. joe90t

    joe90t Active Member

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    WHAT Hap Said !!!!! Joe W.
     
  15. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Ditto what Joe and Hap said. Recoil Sissy has offered about the best explanation of Doubles that I have seen in print, thanks for that.
     
  16. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    I will go with what the last three guys said. We still shoot off of Winchesters at clubs in MT and you better not think you know where that first bird is going to be. LOL Sometimes it's not Doubles but merely two singles targets.

    Rick in MT
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Rick in MT, lol, gives one new meaning to, "shootin where it ain't" with a lot of trap machines! Those trapping the first one out has a strange look on their face afterward and a sheepish grin?? :) Embarrassing those air shots!!

    Hap
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Sounds pretty dumb to me that you would shoot doubles on a machine that is throwing illegal targets. Why doesn't your club buy some good machines? HMB
     
  19. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    HMB,

    It's not my club. And I didn't say they were illegal......merely that you better "see" that first target.

    Rick in MT
     
  20. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If you can't hit the target with a 30 inch wide pattern 5 yards out of the trap house then the target is not legal. HMB
     
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