1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Dot size??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Capt. Morgan, Apr 5, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    I'm going to try using some of those magic dots to help me deal with an increasingly annoying cross-firing problem. I have several containers of them, some in the 17mm size and some in the 13mm size. I'm told that the purpose of the dot is to block out the stronger eye's view of the barrel and the bead. I've been experimenting with sizes and find that I can accomplish this with a dot smaller than 13mm (1/2 inch). A 7/16-inch dot seems to do this fine. But Browning recommended the 17mm (3/4 inch) dot for clay shooting. This is like putting a dinner plate in front of my face and I find it distracting and annoying...I think it's an overkill.

    Is a dot that huge necessary for some reason I'm not aware of?

    Morgan
     
  2. dynapro

    dynapro TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Interesting question... I have wondered about this myself. Too small and it might interfer and be counterproductive as your eye attempts to focus around it. Know what I mean?
     
  3. 682b

    682b Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    386
    I use the vinyl dot from Avery and cut the top and bottom off the 3/4" dot and turn it into a rectangle. It works for me and gives me a little more regular vision area. Your mileage may very. JIM
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,226
    I was told the idea of the dot was to obscure the the focus of the eye, yet allowing more light in and relaxing the muscles around both eyes. I started shooting with a dot, but before I found the right place I got a tip from a older shooter using chapstick I would mark a different location on the license and try it. It worked good enough to block out the focus power but surpriseingly I had great peripheral sight. Once the location was found and size(which you can control with the chapstick) I used the dot. I no longer need them shoot 2 eyed no problem now.
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,970
    Phil Kiner is the expert on this thing and wrote some excellent articles in Trap & Field about crossfiring. The following is a quote from one of his articles:


    "I have one strong disagreement regarding prevalent theory and the tape or dot. Theory says smaller is better and that is not necessarily the case. There are varying degrees of cross dominance and the stronger the cross over the more tape or wider dots you need. Period! I don’t care what theory says!! In these instances theory is absolutely wrong. For a lot of the shooters that have tried the tape or dot and it has not worked it could be because of improper placement or not enough coverage. If you tried the tape or dot and it didn’t work it is worth trying again but covering more of the eye. Get the tape or dot located where you cannot see the bead with off eye (make sure you do this with the gun mounted or the tape/dot will be too low and you’ll look over it.) and go shoot."
     
  6. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    I have excellent peripheral vision but I also wear prescription lenses with a moderately high degree of correction. The dot size I use now completely obscures the bead, the barrel and the top of the receiver but it also does a good job of obscuring the target if it goes to the left on posts 1 and 2. I know that it goes left but I don't know where it is until I swing in that direction and the, invariable, I'm either too high, too low or I move my head on the stock in an effort to locate it. Very frustrating! I've been shooting 2 eyes all my life and shoot scoped rifles with both eyes open with no problem at all.

    Morgan
     
  7. ke4yyd

    ke4yyd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    323
    On another thread research showed that using a darker lens on the left eye was more beneficial for cross dominant shooters than the dot or out of focus lens.

    Has anyone tried that technique?
     
  8. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,970
    I have the crossfire problem and have to hold a low gun over the traphouse to avoid the blind spot when the barrel blots out the target flite path. When you have a tape patch on your off eye lens you become a one-eyed shooter for all practical purposes.
     
  9. rob 15

    rob 15 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    27
    I too had the same problem, an old timer told me that the best way he figured it out was to shoot two eyed even though sometimes he wasn't exactly sure where he was shooting. I tried the dots without any luck, tried his theory, which by the way he said would take some time and finally it worked. I decided like he said to give it a summer and see what happened, now I can't go back. I'm even shooting through a scope with 2 eyes.
     
  10. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,722
    After being a Dot shooter, and installer for some 12 years now I can assure you that you need to stay with the larger dot, and getting someone to put it on the lens right is important. Even if you have an alignment ring putting it right in the center of the eye might not be the right answer. It is very important that the eye you are blocking cannot even attempt to see around the dot.

    GS
     
  11. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,535
    Ok if you go to the website above then you can print and cut them out your self and save a lot of money on buying the after market ones.

    <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v294/foghorn220/people/ODD%20People/?action=view&current=child_cutthroat_pirate_cost.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Ok the photo is from another web site but just on what it might look like after it is printed and pasted over your eye.



    Foggy
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    The dark lens thing did not work for me. I have to use a fairly large piece of tape. If the block is too small I will look under it on left hand targets. The tape is set rather high on the lens and is not seen clearly except when I mount the gun.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    I tried the dark lens thing...it made me physically sick even though I have never experienced motion sickness of ANY kind.

    What's a "90 degree corner at 10-11 o'clock"?

    I've been making my own dots from Magic Tape. I have a hollow gasket punch set that will cut circles in 1/16" increments up to 17mm so my dots are free in any size I need.

    I wouldn't know how to tell if my left eye was trying to see around the dot. I see only one barrel when I shoot with the 13mm dot and I've intentionally bead-checked to determine that. Is there some other symptom I should look for?

    Several long-time users have checked my dot and pronounced it properly placed with the gun mounted. I've checked for myself by calling for targets and then closing my RIGHT eye to see if I could see any of the bird. NO! I always know the dot is there. My head is fairly upright when I mount the gun so the dot obscures a bit of my upper field of vision when I'm not shooting.

    Morgan
     
  14. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,002
    I use the Browning 19mm Magic Dot. For me it works great. I'm right handed and right eye dominant, but sometimes my left eye takes over and I'm staring at the end of the barrel. When I have the dot alignment correct it is in the upper let hand corner of my left lens as I'm looking through the glasses. Morgan Optical has good info on the Magic Dot, I'll try to include the link, Wayne. http://www.morganoptical.net/pageDisplay.jsp?pageid=7631
     
  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,680
    Scotch tape.....

    Defuse as much vision as you deem necessary (only you will know). Get use to it, it's just part of getting older.

    I have learned "To become comfortable in my Discomfort".

    Curt
     
  16. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,463
    Location:
    SE PA
    Capt.,I've tried all of the tricks mentioned here, and then some. I tried the Browning Magic Dots, in several colors. They are too opaque for me. Your idea of using magic tape, which is more translucent is probably a better idea.

    Regarding size of the dot, it depends on how good your shooting form is. If you are all locked in and your torso moves as a unit, the smallest dot that covers the bead is the one to use. There is no possibility of not seeing a left target. However, the less locked in you are the bigger the dot that will be required. If you arm swing at all, you'll need a big dot. BTW, all of the Brownings were too big.

    I've tried the different color density in each eye trick. Doesn't work. I tried less prescription in the left eye. It adjusts. I've tried translucent tape, a la Pat Ireland. No good. I've tried black tape. No good. The only things lens related I haven't tried yet are matte photo spray and jeweler's rough. I'm convinced that if any lens treatment is going to work, it must be subtle. Just enough to make your brain prefer the correct eye, but not enough to loose binocular vision. I'm leaning toward using jeweler's rouge to put a very slight matte finish on the lens. I think I'll try it with plano lenses first.
     
  17. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    Curt,

    I have worn glasses for many years. Getting used to that dot is like trying to get used to a bug splatter on the windshield right in the center of where you want to look.

    zzt,

    I chose the Magic tape because it will accept some of the tint from a permanent Hi-Liter (not water-based). Since I use yellow, violet and orange lenses, finding a Hi-Liter to tint the dots was easy. I Use the backing paper that pre-printed return shipping labels come on, cut it into strips, lay a strip of tape on it, tint the tape with the Hi-Liter and let it dry for several minutes before blotting the excess off the tape. Then I can use a hollow punch to create some dots, pre-tinted and easy to peel off the backing.

    Morgan
     
  18. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,463
    Location:
    SE PA
    That's a clever approach. I'll try it.
     
  19. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,988
    If it seems like "trying to get used to a bug splatter on the windshield------" that's the idea, it's the wrong eye trying to see thru' and take over pointing the gun. It'll be frustrating until you convince your subconcious that it's cross-firin' days are over. Which is also why you wanna' use a big enuf' patch----to keep that sneaky ol' off eye from trying to look AROUND the patch.

    I also use just Scotch "magic tape", 3/4" wide. I don't bother punching out a circle tho', just a 3/4" square

    John C. Saubak

    ps---when you start using the patch the "distracting and annoying" will persist until you get that sneaky ol' off eye to quit tryin' to peek, took ME about ten (25)rounds as I recall.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    John C. Saubak - I use the Scotch brand "magic tape". We are in a time where shooting costs are a consideration. Would you do the calculations that show us the cost for one lens blinder using Scotch tape?

    Pat Ireland
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.