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Donut Post Rib Model 12 questions ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by OLD ONE EYE, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    I read the donut post rib for sale post and had to get my donut gun out for a look over here is what I observed the rib is milled on top just like a factory trap ruff back gun no sand blasted receiver. On the side of the rib is Simmons name but it is much older in style than the new Simmons name on the donut ribs with the straight lines on the newer donut post ribs they installed. I do know they installed ribs for Winchester for a period of time in the past. I was told but do not know for sure that the milled ribs were made by Simmons but installed by Winchester as they had the milling mechine at the factory. There is also a K stamped on the side of the rib what that means I have not a clue also there is a proof mark on the left side of the receiver next to the rib it is faint but there. On Model 12 guns with out a rib the proof mark was on the top so when a rib was added the proof mark was covered up so was missing. I also know that a Super X was never made with a vent rib standard and had to be ordered special and they were always with out the Duck bill on the receiver because of the grove in the receiver top on the Super X guns. This gun came with field wood and a corn cob forend which I still have with lead in the stock. I put the Paul Graff wood on for trap shooting and the best part is I got it at a gun show for 600.00 the guy would not come down a penny he said his grand father ordered the gun special. You can't steal them all I paid the asking price any information about this post will be appericated I may be all wrong in my information and will take correction with appreication except from P3AT my friend & mentor when I grow up I want to be just like him. Buddy
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  2. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    It looks like the head space ring needs to be adjusted by the gap showing on the pictures, unless that is an illusion from the angle the picture was taken from ... Nice gun by the way ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  3. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    Buddy, the rib on the one I'm trying to sell for a friend is different than yours. It has straight lines running parallel to the barrel rather than the cross hatching yours has. It is a Simmons rib with a 2 to the right of their name. This one also has proof marks on the barrel beside the rib and on the receiver.

    As I'm sure you know, you could order just about any configuration from Winchester. That is one reason why collecting these guns is so interesting. You never know what the next one is going to be like.

    I'm sure the experts will eventually discover your thread and tell you all kinds of things about your model 12, but Stu Wright can tell you the truth.

    Good luck,

    Steve
     
  4. fnj682

    fnj682 Member

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    The cross hatched rib was the earliest designed of the Simmons rib. The rib was most likely installed by Simmons and not at the Winchester factory. Simmons sold parts to Winchester for installation but they are usually not marked on the rib or might be marked Simmons patend.
     
  5. redhawk

    redhawk Member

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    Who made the stock and forearm?
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I am thinking they called it a super field model w/ the rib being shown I have aeen several others like it,

    Estimated value as shown $1250-up


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. gunner x

    gunner x TS Member

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    Your model 12 was manufactured in 1953 and or 1954. The round post Donut base
    rib was always known to me as "Old Crows Rib." It is possible that Winchester
    employed a old senior Gunsmith by the name of Crow or Krow, not sure on spelling, I understand he designed that rib, the Donut, thus "Old Crows Rib."

    Just Sharing,
    GunnerX
     
  8. joegriff

    joegriff Member

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    Something nobody has mentioned is that the present of a proof marks on barrel and receiver or a missing or present marking or donuts on the rib or matching numbers on receiver and barrel or a pigeon means obsolutly nothing as to the origionality of a gun. All can be had from many sources. Just my 2 cents worth.
     
  9. whosyourdaddy

    whosyourdaddy Member

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    I bought a similar 3" gun from the original owner, field wood. He sent this gun back to Winchester for a rib installation, and this is what he told me. If a Model 12 field gun was sent back to Winchester for rib installation, Simmons installed the donut style rib for Winchester and the proof marks were restamped. If a Model 12 field gun was sent directly to Simmons, they installed their standard rib, and the proof marks were not restamped. Kinda like the donut rib was a Winchester trademark. I don't know if there is any fact to this or not, just offering what I was told. I would imagine a factory ordered 3" Model 12 with a vent rib is a definate possibility. There are alot of odd Model 12's out there.
     
  10. sasquach

    sasquach Member

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    The guy at Simmons told me that the only ribs that they put on for Winshester were a few on 42's. The ribs, with the exception of the two pin milled rib were of Simmon's design and were licensed to Winchester but were installed by Winchester. A lot of Model 12s are doctored to look like factory. Proof mark stamps are available as are flaming bomb stamps and barrel extentions with pigeons on them. 28 gauge guns are really bad for being altered.
     
  11. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    Ive seen quite a few of the donut post models over the years, some were 3" guns.
    Most marked Simmons.

    A 30" model 12 is the about the same length as a 32"SB. I suppose a Duck gun would approach 34" as longer guns seemed to be the rage in the early 70s as they still are.

    I have had a little more experience with the round post models, which were advertised as the Winchester special rib.

    All the Win. factory reps would tell me is that It came from the factory like that.
    I have owned 2 round post models serial no. range 1,795xxx. Most I have seen seem to fall into the 1,700xxx range.

    It was obvious by the late 50s that a milled post gun was getting prohibitive to build. I suppose the 870 Rem., being cheaper to build, didn't help either.



    Regards....Gerald
     
  12. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    The pictured gun is not a factory vent rib gun. As one poster correctly stated, original factory Model 12 ribs were not put on at Simmons. Factory Model 12 vent ribs were not marked Simmons. Simmons installed and marked some Model 42 vent ribs for the factory. The matting on the pictured rib is not Winchester matting, it is early Simmons matting. A field used 3" Model 12 with a Simmons rib is worth about what a similar condition plain barrel gun is worth. Neither have collector value, they are just good shooters. Simmons either stamps the Winchester proof mark or doesn't. It has nothing to do with whom they are installing the rib for. Both the donut post, the round post and the later oval post were referred to in the Winchester catalog as the "Winchester Special Ventilated Rib".
     
  13. rodbuster

    rodbuster TS Member

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    Good morning Buddy, I may have a few items of info for you. I received a copy of Dave Riffle's book, "The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built", for Christmas. I have found this book to be a great source of info on the Winchester Model 12 shot gun, covering the period from 1912 to 1964.

    According to this book, your gun was made in 1951. Also the book states that the "round post donut base" was first introduced in 1954. This was also called the "New Winchester Special Ventilated Rib". This rib was manufactured by Winchester at the Winchester factory. It was available for 8 years.

    I thought it was interesting that the listed retail prices (for example in 1955), for a 2 pin milled rib trap gun was about $54 more than the price for the same gun with the Winchester Special ventilated rib.

    I am no expert in model 12's, but I have found that Mr. Riffles book is a great help in understanding, and learning more about these fine guns. If anyone is interested here is a link to his website:

    http://daverifflegunsales.com.phtemp.com/book.htm
     
  14. whosyourdaddy

    whosyourdaddy Member

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    Thanks for the correction gentlemen. Hope I didn't mislead anyone.
     
  15. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    eightbore, where does your knowledge of model 12 manufacture come from? Who are you quoting? Why is it that you believe that a ribbed barrel by Simmons and a plain barrel have the same value. I sure can't find this information in any of the model 12 books, all state ribbed barrels have up to 60% more value.

    Thank you,

    \Steve
     
  16. fnj682

    fnj682 Member

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    The Winchester Special Vent rib was first developed in 1954 and offered in 1955.
    I believe the gun in question was built in early 1953 according to the Madis book (or 51 according to Riffle as stated above). Lack of proof mark on receiver and buffed offset proof mark. Could be an original solid ribbed gun that was sent back to Simmons for rib installation. Very nice gun.
     
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