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Does PSI = recoil???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by minnship8, Sep 18, 2011.

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  1. minnship8

    minnship8 Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to load a very light recoil 1st shot doubles load and am using recipes from Lymans.

    My question is, does PSI = recoil or are there other factors involved?

    Also, what is your favorite light recoil recipe or first doubles shot recipe?

    Thanks,
    Chip
     
  2. kene

    kene TS Member

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    don't have the formula for recoil at my finger tips now but simple answer is "no". the factors in the formula [from memory] include weight of ejecta [powder + shot + wad -- or everything that goes out the end of the barrel], velocity at which it leaves the barrel, and weight of the gun. maybe another factor in the formula but am not sure. at least the ones i listed make sense from old physics classes. psi creates the velocity by pushing on the wad/shot but it depends how long the peak psi exists for as to how fast the shot leaves the barrel - some loads have high short duration pressures and others have lower long duration to get to the same velocity. and the durations are measured in milli-seconds so your body would likely not be able to sense any difference.
     
  3. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    What kene said above: PSI has nothing to do with recoil.

    To get low(er) recoil:

    a) reduce your shot charge to 1oz, or 7/8oz, and/or

    b) reduce your velocity to slower than 1100fps and/or

    c) add weight to your gun.

    Bob
     
  4. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    To basically answer your question NO. PSI has nothing to do with recoil. It all comes down to velocity and payload.
     
  5. kene

    kene TS Member

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    as goat said -- for lower recoil go to a lighter weight of shot [I have used 7/8 oz and it is definitely lower recoil than 1 or 1 1/8 oz -- breaks targets from 16 very well if I do my part] or slower [1150 or 1100 fps] or make the gun heavier. Or try some combination of all of these things.
     
  6. mallard2

    mallard2 Active Member

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    For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. That's a law that can't be broken, changed, reduced, etc. (By the way, it is Newton's Third Law of motion).

    Velocity + mass = the opposite and equal action.

    Things like gun weight, recoil reducers, etc., only spread the time of the reaction out so it feels like less recoil.
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Period.

    If it was, my 12,000 psi 1/2 ounce .410 loads would recoil more than my 10,000 psi 1-1/8 ounce handicap loads.

    And they don't.
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    0 PSI = 0 Recoil. HMB
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Chip,

    To expand on this, if your question is, all else equal (muzzle velocity, weight of the shot and wad, and as near as possible, weight of the powder, same gun) but using two different powders, will the higher pressure load recoil more?

    No.

    If your question is, two loads essentially identical, including type of powder, except one has more powder than the other, will the higher pressure cause one load to have more recoil?

    Again, no. It will have more recoil because the muzzle velocity of the load with more powder is higher than the one with less powder.

    The reason this is true is because the reported pressures are peak pressures that last a very short time (milliseconds), but are not indicative of the overall energy put behind the shot/wad to get it out the barrel. What IS indicative of the overall energy behind the shot/wad to get it out the barrel, indirectly, is muzzle velocity.

    And as usual, hmb offers his trivial answer that there is a relationship between pressure and recoil because if you have no pressure, you have no recoil. True, but hardly useful.


    Here's a load I like:

    Remington Hull<br>
    Winchester 209 Primer<br>
    ~17 grains of Hodgdon Clays <br>
    Downrange XL-1 wad<br>
    1 ounce of 8 or 8-1/2 shot

    Good singles load, and good on both shots of doubles.
     
  10. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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  11. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    hmb,

    Your formula is flawed. It should read 0 PSI = 0 FPS which also = 0 Recoil.

    Recoil is a direct result of payload and velocity, nothing more.

    ss
     
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Question #1 no.

    Question #2. 14.5 gr alliant extra lite, any primer, 7/8 oz #8 1/2's in a Drxxl (7/8 oz) wad in sts or gun club hulls. For 1st shot dbls and practice.
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    The correct answer is yes and no, You take an 1 1/8th oz load and load 22 Grs 800-X and 17 Grs of Red Dot using a AA Wad, In a AA Hull the Red Dot load will bump more due to the rapid increase of pressure to 10,700 Vs the 800-X at 7,200
    psi, the recoil will be more of a push,.

    If you had a recoil graph with the Cradle on wheels/w spring and marker you will see the difference.

    You cannot compare a .410 1/2 oz payload to a 1 1/8th oz 12 ga load under any circumstances. Diameter of Bbl + Payload must be equal for a comparasion.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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  16. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Kind of.....
     
  17. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    While most of the above is true, it refers to total recoil (energy)felt by the shooter. What has been ignored is the time element. A slow burning powder will accelerate the load more slowly than a faster burning powder. Although the same shot velocity, and energy will be expended, felt recoil will be less "SHARP". Can we tell the difference in a blind test? Probably not. But there is a difference, small as it may be. Will it make a difference in shooter fatigue after a long day? I have always felt it did. Shooting a slow burning powder at suggested loads certainly does not seem to create any problems and should improve the longevity of the gun. And if the shooter feels he is getting a softer recoil (even if only between the ears) then he will probably benefit as well.

    OK guys, jump on me. Marc
     
  18. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Marc, I agree with your theory. Why is it Green Dot has less felt recoil than Red Dot loads? Burn rate. Why is it that back bored, or large bored barrels have less felt recoil? Larger bores allow some gases to escape around the shot cup and wad so that the acceleration of the shot is less abrupt. Same difference. Yogi.
     
  19. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    There is more to firearm recoil than Newtons law.
     
  20. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Gary,

    Indicator card.
     
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