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Does Olympic Trap shooters flinch?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by BLKLABS, Aug 19, 2008.

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  1. BLKLABS

    BLKLABS TS Member

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    Well I might not have the correct answer. However, Olympic shooters are only using 7/8 oz loads. Lot less recoil to start with than a heavy handicap load.
     
  2. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Its called Target Panic and the Archery community has a way to deal with it.
     
  3. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    plus the fact that they shoot 7/8 oz loads, they also have a gun that is properly fit to them for their shooting style.
     
  4. JPettengill

    JPettengill TS Member

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    International Trap Shooters do flinch, but about 3 years, or so, ago the use of a release trigger was banned by the ISSF. It's an American invention and therefore it's dangerous. I switched back to a pull trigger and don't flinch much, you don't really have time to flinch anyway.

    Jim Pettengill
     
  5. BLKLABS

    BLKLABS TS Member

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    TBABER...As a nfaa archery coach I would have to disagree with you and say that the flinching is differant from target panic. The flinching is caused by recoil. Target panic sets in from anxiety when aiming. You dont aim a shotgun. Target panic can be cured easily from either the use of a back tension release or by shooting blind folded. Shooting a shotgun blind folded would not only be dangerous it would also not cure you from jerking when you pull the trigger.
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE:

    Release Trigger (USA):

    Any competitor using any type of release trigger can not compete in any finals rounds and can not make the National Team, National Development Team or any USA Shooting Team.
     
  7. k3uro

    k3uro Member

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    Hi,

    I have found it very difficult to hold the Release during the mount from a low gun position. I do not think it is anymore dangerous than any other way though.

    How many Release shooters have hurt someone?

    Take care,

    Jim
     
  8. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    As I understand both Beretta and Perazzi advised the ISSF Shotgun committee that they felt RT were dangerous and should be banned. I am thankful that I an not afflicted with a flinch (have other problems instead) so I have never owned one although I tried one once. Shot the trap house roof twice. Not my fault however as the RT was not properly fitted to my gun and therefore malfunctioned.

    TB
     
  9. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    BLKLABS...

    I don't completely buy what you are saying because flenching occurs before the shot is made. Your comment about a "Back Tension Release" is not valid because its the same thing as a release trigger and they are illegal in Olympic Shooting.

    TB
     
  10. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

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    TBABER, target panic? That's what I used to call it! Sometimes I used to call it target startle, and or I didn't see the target come out. I always had some excuse! I now call a flinch what it is. This is from a shooter who flinched around 3 to 4 times per hundred, be it singles, caps and or doubles. I'd even flinch while shooting skeet, Five Stand & sporting clays. After the Central Grand in May, I decided to stop missing targets and making my shooting friends uncomfortable with my problem.

    About 2 and half months ago, I had Alamo Sporting Arms put a release trigger into my gun. Since then and approximately 3,000 plus rounds, I have not flinched once! No more shooting targets 3 feet from the ground. No more making my shooting buddies uncomfortable by me letting targets go by without shooting at them! NO more having shooters behind me miss because my flinch became a distraction.

    What I have witnessed is my singles average going from 94% to around 97.4%, including my first 100 straight. My caps average climbing from 85% to 89.3% including three punches within two months.

    I don't not know if Olympic shooters flinch but I suspect they all do in their own right. I'm not sure why the ISSF banned release triggers. There no more dangerous than International shooters changing stations with loaded guns. For me a release trigger has given me shooting life. Maybe, in time that could change but ask my friends they have no problem shooting with me anymore.

    Thanks

    Rick
     
  11. ljutic231

    ljutic231 TS Member

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    I think in Bunker trap if you flinch , it's probably called lost , by the time you recover from the flinch the target is long gone.
     
  12. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Rick: Glad it is working, saw your testimonial in T&F. The International boys just can't let it go that release triggers do work and work well yet they can waltz around with shells in their guns. Personally I'll take a release trigger beside me pointed downrange as opposed to shooters (plural) walking around with live shells in chambers and no-one policing where their guns are pointed because they are behind you, beside you.

    It's kind of funny because both Beretta and Perazzi will send you somewhere to get a release put in one of their guns. And there are 1,000's of Perazzi and Beretta guns with releases in them.

    People just can't leave the American Trap shooter alone. We don't want to be International shooters, that is not our sport. Take your funny rules and 7/8 oz loads and go play your games and leave us to ours, no you want to change our rules to yours. Ain't going to happen.

    Don
     
  13. Fritzboy

    Fritzboy TS Member

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    Does they flinch? Do the bus stop here?
     
  14. BLKLABS

    BLKLABS TS Member

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    TBABER- To each his own opinion. And I see where you are coming from but I just dont look at these two issues as being the same. Yes, Flinching and Target panic may seem alike and have similiar effects. However, I still wouldnt consider them the same thing. They are brought on by two differant actions. Like I said before, typically when you come down with target panic in archery its almost like anxiety while focusing on your target and forcing yourself to jerk the shot because you are getting so nervous. A back tension cures the problem because it takes that step out of the shot sequence and allows you to just aim until your shot breaks. Also, typically after you shoot a back tension for a while you can go back to a regular trigger release and not have any problems.
     
  15. wlc

    wlc Member

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    Most experienced archers agree that target panic occurs when a sight picture is allowed to trigger the shot. Release shooters can get over it by shooting a release that can not be anticipated, finger shooters use a clicker. The clicker works by aiming while drawing the last fraction of an inch of arrow from under the clicker and letting the click trigger the release. Both work by forcing the shooter to concentrate on aiming and just letting the release happen.
    Not sure exactly how this can be related to shotgun shooting where the sight picture must trigger the shot.
    Bill
     
  16. Voolfie

    Voolfie Member

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    I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that Int'l trapshooters flinch less than American ones...for one reason: they have to move more than ATA shooters, so muscular tension doesn't build up as much. My experience is that muscular tension is what causes the majority of flinches. In the same way that a golfer with a case of "the yips" while putting can have no trouble whatsoever off the tee, a shooter can be a flinching machine at trap, but have no difficulties at skeet or clays, because at those games his body 'expects' to move more and so tension doesn't get to build up as much. Remember also that our eyes move to the target courtesy of muscles and they can tense up as well. Trying to pick up a target with a "hard" focus is a great way to overtax the muscles that focus your eyes. When they get tired, they're not going to do as good a job. Hand-eye coordination means that your hands will go where your eyes are looking. If your eyes can't get there, because they've had to unfocus, find the target and refocus 100 times in the last couple of hours, it should not come as a surprise when the gun barrel starts flying all over the sky. That's my story and I'm sticking with it. -John W.
     
  17. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

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    Thanks Don for the nice words and thanks for encouraging me when we talked in MI. Money well spent!

    Rick
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Hasn't archery ALWAYS been a release type thing on a string? Call it what you want, flinching is what it is for various reasons. Jim P. above I feel is very close, those shooters don't have much time to allow the mind to interfere with such fast targets! A very good friend is a great trapshooter with a release trigger, he's also a great live bird shot with a pull. Once the mind is made up which is best for your for shooting, it's tough to change. A good stock maker would say, I can change anything except your mind. Hap
     
  19. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Heard an interesting comment this morning. A fellow shooter said flinching is really a fear of missing. In olympic shooting missing the target is common. Withes that no one ran the program in Bejing. So missing is common and the shooter has to deal with it. In ATA one miss and your day is over.

    Interesting comment.

    TB
     
  20. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Tom:

    One hears all kinds of things. Sometimes it's best to smile and nod your head, then forget what you heard. That is one of them.
     
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