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Does Not Look Good $700 for Retirees

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by BT-100dc, Dec 23, 2008.

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  1. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

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    The UAW retirees will receive $700 as we bail out the Auto Companies (except Ford). People complain when executives receive bonuses (as well do I); how do you think, as a taxpayer, when the domestic auto companies are in a financial mess and here we pay hundreds of thousand retirees a bonus check? That can't sit well with a lot of taxpayers. True, it comes out of the pension fund (I'm sure their pension fund is not in the best of shape) but just like my check book or savings "fund", at some point I have to realize the loss (unless Maddoff runs the fund). I'm not against retirees, as I'm one myself, but this type of thing creates a bad taste for the taxpayer. I realize this was as a result of a contract settlement but the timing really sucks. Oh well, it's Christmas, but I won't get a $700 check just for being a retiree.
     
  2. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    He's not getting a check -

    The UAW's and other union's times have past. Now that I've just annoyed all union members - here is my biggest gripe - management was involved with all of thise UAW negotiations and sold the farm to them. Now they want a bailout because of decades of poor decision making and union negotiations. Anyone think sitting around getting 80% pay when your 1) not working and 2 ) your company is in the trash is reasonable? What kind of idiotic business decision is that? The big three have earned what's coming them, and we will all have to absorb the short term (realtively speaking) pain. Oh yeah - watch them all run for office now that they've run american car manufacturing into the ground. That's the only job left for which the are qualified.
     
  3. 682Fan

    682Fan TS Member

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    I agree with Ducks except - the UAW isn't going antwhere. It will be back like pestilence, the plague etc. when the economy improves.

    My biggest gripe, besides auto workers being paid for nothing:
    Their sense of entitlement. A person walks out of high school, many time following generations before him/her, into a plant which will guarantee job security and benefits for life. Total investment, zero personal dollars, zero time spent for personal improvement.

    Next gripe is the arrogance of the UAW. Marxist socialism. The assembly line worker should receive the same compensation as the physician.

    Arnie
     
  4. 682LINY

    682LINY Member

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    union or no union,,,(and I am a union member),,,it is not a good busnius (sic) model when your employees can not aford the product they produce,,,,weather it is cars , sneakers, or a cell phone,,,
     
  5. SARGE75X

    SARGE75X Member

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    I dont know about the UAW but I do know about the USWA. I too followed my Father to the Mill after High School, so did both of my brothers and many other family members. Heres what you don't know, at one time, Coke Plant workers could retire with full benefits after 20 years of service, the rest of us had to pull 30, why, because the company knew they were going to die thats why. I remember a survey being done that on average a retired Steelworker was paid their pension for 18 months, then they died. I have 2 members of my own family that never got a single check. I myself retired at 48 with 30 years and have been back in school for 2 years. I knew I couldnt really retire at 48 not with the pension I receive but I want a job where the air is clean and I'm not exposed to PCB's,Mercury,Cadium etc so I chose Nursing and the VA Hospital.So with Steelworkers, Total Investment is usually your life. BTW this past March a guy I used to work with was killed on the job(crushed, almost cut in 2) with 4 days left before he retired with 34 years.
     
  6. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Too little too late.The Union Workers could work for $5.00 an hour and they are still going to go tit's up.Who in the #ell is going to buy?

    This country is in one big mess.There is no way the Big Three can turn around in three months.Sure made Bush look good though.Bet his approval rate went up.
    He should of button up his shirt before his heart jumps out.
    So much compassion.One year from now the news will come out and say we are now in a Depression that started at the end of 08.It took them a year to figure out we were in a recession.So people I am going to start making leather punches.
    Before this is over you are going to be punching extra holes in your belt.

    Retired UAW member.

    Bocephas
     
  7. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    $27-Million UAW-Owned Country Club Includes Golf Course, Condos, Swimming Pools


    (CNSNews.com) – The United Autoworkers Union, which had a total net worth of $1.2 billion in 2007, owns a $27 million resort and conference center that features a $6 million upscale golf course, according to financial statements on file with the U.S. Department of Labor.


    The retreat, called the Walter and May Reuther Family Education Center, is located on Black Lake in Onaway, Mich. The union-owned retreat includes the Black Lake Golf Club, valued at $6 million according to the financial statement.


    The resort features conference centers, classrooms, resort amenities and the golf club, which is open to union members, retirees and their guests, as well as the public, on a space-available basis.


    Accommodations at the resort cost $92 a night for a single room and $106 a night for a double. Full-service condos are available costing $180 for a two-bedroom and $275 for a three-bedroom unit.


    UAW members receive a slight discount on accommodations, paying $74 a night for a single, $87 a night for a double. Members can rent a two-bedroom condo for $150/night and a three-bedroom condo for $225/night.


    The Education Center includes lakeside rooms, hotel-style rooms, as well as a fully-equipped campground, boat ramp and dock. It also has an Olympic-sized swimming pool, two full-length basketball courts, and a sauna.


    The 1,000 acre golf club is a first-class, 1,000 acre, environmentally conscious course designed by Rees Jones, son of famed golf course designer Robert Trent Jones, the same designer behind PGA-level courses Pinehurst, Torrey Pines, and LPGA International.


    “There is nothing artificial or contrived at Black Lake,” Jones is quoted as saying on the club’s Web site.


    The union-owned golf resort was voted the Number 2 Best New Upscale Course by Golf Digest when it opened in 2000 and is currently ranked 35th on the list of America’s 100 Greatest Public Courses.


    Lifetime and annual memberships are available only for union members or retirees, while limited memberships are available to the public starting at $1,200 per year.


    President Bush announced an emergency plan to bail out struggling U.S. automakers Friday, including in the package a provision that mandates that union wages be brought in line with wages paid by non-union automakers.


    UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said that the wage restrictions included in the $17.4 billion auto bailout were unfair and singled out workers, pledging to lobby the Obama administration to have them removed.


    The bailout was negotiated between the White House, Treasury, UAW and the automakers.


    “While we appreciate that President Bush has taken the emergency action needed to help America's auto companies weather the current financial crisis, we are disappointed that he has added unfair conditions singling out workers,” Gettelfinger said in a statement.


    “We will work with the Obama administration and the new Congress to ensure that these unfair conditions are removed."
     
  8. Delbert

    Delbert TS Member

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    682LINY is right- Boeing workers certainly should be able to afford a new 787. If they can't, Boeing isn't paying them enough.
     
  9. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Joe been there nice place.This came out of union dues not corp. or DC.

    Have you ever looked at how much is in the strike fund?

    It will make your knees buckle.

    The top cats in the Union are paid very well and get to draw two pensions if they worked in the shop.

    So, who gives a #ats #ss beats working for $7.00 or $8.00 per hour.

    You think the tellers and loan officers at the banks have access to the corp. jets,and the perks the top people do.They make a decent wage and look the other way.

    So may as well get use to it some have it some don't.

    Only in America Take Care of Me Me and the #ell with the other guy.

    This will change.

    Bo
     
  10. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Full choke,

    What do you do for a living that makes you feel so entitled and superior over a factory worker? Do you feel you were born into caste that makes you more deserving? Do you really think these guys get a check for doing nothing?
     
  11. BARTMAN

    BARTMAN TS Member

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    If no one is buying your product that means your company needs to cut back on production to meet demand. not keep on producing cars and paying salaries and not working employees. So why should you be bailed out so that everyone can keep on getting paid. My pay has slowed and no one cares. They will piss this money away and still go tits up. It is all a scam. The banks slow down and same thing lets bail them out so they can all keep on sucking america dry to pay all the salaries jets instead of cutting overhead . I dont get it
     
  12. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    gettlefinger kicked deploying marines off a parking lot -- they were going to IRAQ

    He is horse dung and he is laying on a mound of more horse dung

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  13. sammyd95

    sammyd95 TS Member

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    when I was laid off,I did NOT seee the auto workers worrying about me,and I was drawing all of $60.00 yes 60 a week and had a family to support and was told I didnt make enough to turn in dependents!
     
  14. ks5shooter

    ks5shooter Member

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    If the company agreed to a contract they are bound to it as is the union.Call your mortgage company and try to change your rate!Wrong answer, you agreed and signed and you are bound by the agreement end of story.The US government is costing you money by bailing out grossly mismanaged companies not the UAW complain to GM and Chrysler.This didnt happen in six months they have been mismanaged for years.If your boss offers you a $2 an hour raise are you gonna turn it down ?Not likely union or non union....Don
     
  15. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Getting a check for doing Nothing.At least they are paying income tax on that check.Thats one hell of a lot more than the Welfare people pay for doing Nothing
    and getting a check.There are more people going on Welfare each day.
    Right or wrong,if the Big Three go broke there will be a lot more on Welfare and not paying tax.

    Bo
     
  16. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Bust out the union guys, then we can start on the next highest pay tier... yeah let's just go full blown socialist and pursue minimum wage for all. China could still beat us because they don't even pay close to that.

    Bust out the Union wages (including prevailing wages} and all the business they support, the ATA could host the Grand at any medium size gun club because many could no longer afford to shoot, or buy a boat, or motorcycle, or a Rv or a trap gun or many other luxury item that decent paying jobs support, mass failures from these businesses would soon follow. Just think of the lost revenue collected by the state from hunting and fishing licenses affecting all sportsmen.

    If you work in a non union shop and earn a decent wage thank an old union boy that fought to set the pay standard and working conditions. Thank the Union shops that created a market for your shop to undercut by not paying you a pension to make a profit.

    Think we have deteriorating state and federal budgets now? Hold on to your hats.
     
  17. WIN12 MAN

    WIN12 MAN TS Member

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    Yes .. it's the damn unions > ''ie'' liberal teachers unions .. cops & public workers unions .. Fed. workers unions = all are responsible for americas problems . Lets ban all damn unions '' Obamas''liberal marxism = much better idea .

    Auto compaines bulit cars & trucks Americans demanded > full size //
    mommie needed those full size vans to haul little bundles of happiness
    to next '' soccer game '' ..now it's the auto companies & uaw's fault .. = bull shxx .. \



    Americnas 401-k retirement accounts & stock holders didn't mind getting those high dividend ''checks every year... always happy to see ''more'' money in their retirment accounts.. always ready to suck more. .. now it's finger pointing time and it's the unions fault .. those guys didnt' work 30 yr's for their penisons > but everyone else did > cut the crap.


    Ross Perot : quote > ''NAFTA '' .. That large sucking sound = americas auto ind. destroyed ... americans sent good paying jobs to Mexico > they sent 15 million illegals & drug gangs .. what a great deal .. wonderful.

    No matter Japanese goverment '' SUBSIDIZES'' their workers & companies//
    paid workers health care.. put sky high tariffs & taxes on american auto imports ..>> what free trade ///?/ > Get Real..

    This mess goes right back to usual starting point = Washington Dc.
    ''Americas '' BIGGEST PROBLEM > over paid Ass Scratching political
    loads that screwed up everything they ever touched..

    win
     
  18. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Active Member

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    From: likes-to-shoot

    "How come all you guys that bash the United States factory workers aren't on the band wagon about Toyota losing money?? "

    Because Toyota isn't asking for billions
     
  19. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

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    Thank you Bocephaus and Shannon391 at least a couple of people on here understand what is going on. Now then years before I went to work at Jeep. The tool and die makers, machine repairmen and machinists were members of the MESA union and the production people and electricians and millwrights belonged to the UAW. 'SUB' pay was offered to the MESA people instead of a nickle and hour raise. The MESA people turned it down because they were hardly ever layed off. Well years later the MESA people were absorbed into the UAW and we got sub pay. Which by the way came about so that trained and skilled workers would not leave the company but come back to their jobs when times were better. The Black lake center was not buillt overnight but little by little over the years. Way back in the fifties it was just remote cabins and not much else. It was a place where union workers could take their families to spend a week or so in the woods just like the rich people did. It changed over the years and is a great educational center for union members and yes there is golf course. So what? If American nameplate cars and trucks are so BAD quality wise then why don't you see more of them dead along the highways? Do they all die in parking lots or driveways? I had a good job at Jeep the last few years physically wise. I had a torque validation route and took care air and electric power tools for the line but I did my time in the press shop. It is no fun wrestling around crane chains the size of your upper arm and laying under tons of steel and iron taking care of flaws in a die because of dirt or whatever. Stoning out bad spots so a roof panel will look correct when the auto is painted etc. Some of you have no idea what so ever what it is like in a true manufacturing invironment or what the other trades that do the building of this great country go through to earn their keep. The word at Jeep was always 'we the plant make money in spite of the management'! Be it Kaiser, American Motors,the French/Renault, Chrysler, Cerebus/the five headed dog that guards the gates of Hell! I guess you bitch about the auto bailout because you can, but the banking bailout was done quick and dirty over a weekend during I imagine, a nice snack of lox and bagels! Because the auto deal was done in the open you have time to bitch. Just like the ones that turn down school levies because that is a local matter and you have very little control over national or state taxes. Bill
     
  20. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    The banking bailout was just as, if MORE, of a crock thatn the auto bailout. But the auto bailout is a crock, and if you look at why a car that will barely make it to 100,000 miles costs more than a years salary for a faimily of four, it's due to the amount of $$ the unions have negotiated over the years. Mind you, good for them, but in the end it was a ponsi scheme and now we're all feeling the pinch.

    I have had three Jap cars - each made it to over 200K - one to over 300K. My one Dodge truck - that I truly loved and took meticulous care of - 70K and started to fall apart.

    My $$ goes to Jap cars - still made in the US, just to higher standards and by non-union employees. Maybe there is a correlation, maybe not - I don't know, and can't afford to find out.

    Joe
     
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